Is it possible to map the firing of neurons in the human brain so as to stimulate artificial memories in someone else?Why would telepaths have difficulty communicating with each other?What happens to a human who receives more information than the brain can process?How might a machine to combine divergent experiences of two clones work?How does the full moon effect the human body? (CONTEXT: Possible causes for werewolf transformations)What is the bit rate of a human brain?Cameras replacing human eyes after an accident: Is there a limit to how high resolution the brain can process?What would happen if the brain disappeared only for microseconds in a human being?Memories stored in hair: social and cultural consequencesProbing neurons to map someones brainIs it possible for the Earth to enter a period of naturally-occuring perpetual winter and still sustain human life?If an Artificial Intelligence system with the same number of neurons and synapses as the human brain was built, would it be smarter than a human?

What defenses are there against being summoned by the Gate spell?

"You are your self first supporter", a more proper way to say it

Did Shadowfax go to Valinor?

Is a tag line useful on a cover?

Can a Warlock become Neutral Good?

How does one intimidate enemies without having the capacity for violence?

The use of multiple foreign keys on same column in SQL Server

What would happen to a modern skyscraper if it rains micro blackholes?

Is it tax fraud for an individual to declare non-taxable revenue as taxable income? (US tax laws)

Can I make popcorn with any corn?

Is it possible to do 50 km distance without any previous training?

Today is the Center

Finding angle with pure Geometry.

Why do falling prices hurt debtors?

Arthur Somervell: 1000 Exercises - Meaning of this notation

Why was the small council so happy for Tyrion to become the Master of Coin?

Are the number of citations and number of published articles the most important criteria for a tenure promotion?

Watching something be written to a file live with tail

Can an x86 CPU running in real mode be considered to be basically an 8086 CPU?

Writing rule stating superpower from different root cause is bad writing

What typically incentivizes a professor to change jobs to a lower ranking university?

Fencing style for blades that can attack from a distance

Pattern match does not work in bash script

Either or Neither in sentence with another negative



Is it possible to map the firing of neurons in the human brain so as to stimulate artificial memories in someone else?


Why would telepaths have difficulty communicating with each other?What happens to a human who receives more information than the brain can process?How might a machine to combine divergent experiences of two clones work?How does the full moon effect the human body? (CONTEXT: Possible causes for werewolf transformations)What is the bit rate of a human brain?Cameras replacing human eyes after an accident: Is there a limit to how high resolution the brain can process?What would happen if the brain disappeared only for microseconds in a human being?Memories stored in hair: social and cultural consequencesProbing neurons to map someones brainIs it possible for the Earth to enter a period of naturally-occuring perpetual winter and still sustain human life?If an Artificial Intelligence system with the same number of neurons and synapses as the human brain was built, would it be smarter than a human?













9












$begingroup$


My question is based on the following excerpt from an article I read recently:




Since the early neurological work of Karl Lashley and Wilder Penfield in the 1950s and 1960s, it has become clear that long-term memories are not stored in just one part of the brain, but are widely distributed throughout the cortex. After consolidation, long-term memories are stored throughout the brain as groups of neurons that are primed to fire together in the same pattern that created the original experience, and each component of a memory is stored in the brain area that initiated it (e.g. groups of neurons in the visual cortex store a sight, neurons in the amygdala store the associated emotion, etc). Indeed, it seems that they may even be encoded redundantly, several times, in various parts of the cortex, so that, if one engram (or memory trace) is wiped out, there are duplicates, or alternative pathways, elsewhere, through which the memory may still be retrieved.




Is it, therefore, theoretically possible to create a machine that perfectly maps out the way in which neurons fire in Patient A regarding a certain memory, and then to stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B, so as to allow them to live that memory or even believe it to be theirs?



By extension, could this machine map out the neuron firing order that occurs while someone studies mathematics or physics, and then to replicate such firing in another person so as to impart that knowledge upon them? Or is there some additional element that arises when living through the experience yourself that cannot be reproduced in such a binary fashion as "firing of neutrons". If so, what does that say about the passage quoted above?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Red Robin is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    "Stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B:" in this sentence the word "identical" cannot possibly mean "identical". Two different persons, even "identical" twins, have different neural connectomes.
    $endgroup$
    – AlexP
    Apr 2 at 16:31










  • $begingroup$
    For a similar consequence to this ability, please read my answer to this other question. (The last part about normal humans being afraid.)
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    Apr 3 at 5:59
















9












$begingroup$


My question is based on the following excerpt from an article I read recently:




Since the early neurological work of Karl Lashley and Wilder Penfield in the 1950s and 1960s, it has become clear that long-term memories are not stored in just one part of the brain, but are widely distributed throughout the cortex. After consolidation, long-term memories are stored throughout the brain as groups of neurons that are primed to fire together in the same pattern that created the original experience, and each component of a memory is stored in the brain area that initiated it (e.g. groups of neurons in the visual cortex store a sight, neurons in the amygdala store the associated emotion, etc). Indeed, it seems that they may even be encoded redundantly, several times, in various parts of the cortex, so that, if one engram (or memory trace) is wiped out, there are duplicates, or alternative pathways, elsewhere, through which the memory may still be retrieved.




Is it, therefore, theoretically possible to create a machine that perfectly maps out the way in which neurons fire in Patient A regarding a certain memory, and then to stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B, so as to allow them to live that memory or even believe it to be theirs?



By extension, could this machine map out the neuron firing order that occurs while someone studies mathematics or physics, and then to replicate such firing in another person so as to impart that knowledge upon them? Or is there some additional element that arises when living through the experience yourself that cannot be reproduced in such a binary fashion as "firing of neutrons". If so, what does that say about the passage quoted above?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Red Robin is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    "Stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B:" in this sentence the word "identical" cannot possibly mean "identical". Two different persons, even "identical" twins, have different neural connectomes.
    $endgroup$
    – AlexP
    Apr 2 at 16:31










  • $begingroup$
    For a similar consequence to this ability, please read my answer to this other question. (The last part about normal humans being afraid.)
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    Apr 3 at 5:59














9












9








9





$begingroup$


My question is based on the following excerpt from an article I read recently:




Since the early neurological work of Karl Lashley and Wilder Penfield in the 1950s and 1960s, it has become clear that long-term memories are not stored in just one part of the brain, but are widely distributed throughout the cortex. After consolidation, long-term memories are stored throughout the brain as groups of neurons that are primed to fire together in the same pattern that created the original experience, and each component of a memory is stored in the brain area that initiated it (e.g. groups of neurons in the visual cortex store a sight, neurons in the amygdala store the associated emotion, etc). Indeed, it seems that they may even be encoded redundantly, several times, in various parts of the cortex, so that, if one engram (or memory trace) is wiped out, there are duplicates, or alternative pathways, elsewhere, through which the memory may still be retrieved.




Is it, therefore, theoretically possible to create a machine that perfectly maps out the way in which neurons fire in Patient A regarding a certain memory, and then to stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B, so as to allow them to live that memory or even believe it to be theirs?



By extension, could this machine map out the neuron firing order that occurs while someone studies mathematics or physics, and then to replicate such firing in another person so as to impart that knowledge upon them? Or is there some additional element that arises when living through the experience yourself that cannot be reproduced in such a binary fashion as "firing of neutrons". If so, what does that say about the passage quoted above?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Red Robin is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$




My question is based on the following excerpt from an article I read recently:




Since the early neurological work of Karl Lashley and Wilder Penfield in the 1950s and 1960s, it has become clear that long-term memories are not stored in just one part of the brain, but are widely distributed throughout the cortex. After consolidation, long-term memories are stored throughout the brain as groups of neurons that are primed to fire together in the same pattern that created the original experience, and each component of a memory is stored in the brain area that initiated it (e.g. groups of neurons in the visual cortex store a sight, neurons in the amygdala store the associated emotion, etc). Indeed, it seems that they may even be encoded redundantly, several times, in various parts of the cortex, so that, if one engram (or memory trace) is wiped out, there are duplicates, or alternative pathways, elsewhere, through which the memory may still be retrieved.




Is it, therefore, theoretically possible to create a machine that perfectly maps out the way in which neurons fire in Patient A regarding a certain memory, and then to stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B, so as to allow them to live that memory or even believe it to be theirs?



By extension, could this machine map out the neuron firing order that occurs while someone studies mathematics or physics, and then to replicate such firing in another person so as to impart that knowledge upon them? Or is there some additional element that arises when living through the experience yourself that cannot be reproduced in such a binary fashion as "firing of neutrons". If so, what does that say about the passage quoted above?







science-based science-fiction brain memory






share|improve this question









New contributor




Red Robin is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question









New contributor




Red Robin is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Apr 2 at 16:57









Cyn

11.1k12453




11.1k12453






New contributor




Red Robin is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









asked Apr 2 at 16:15









Red RobinRed Robin

1566




1566




New contributor




Red Robin is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





Red Robin is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






Red Robin is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    "Stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B:" in this sentence the word "identical" cannot possibly mean "identical". Two different persons, even "identical" twins, have different neural connectomes.
    $endgroup$
    – AlexP
    Apr 2 at 16:31










  • $begingroup$
    For a similar consequence to this ability, please read my answer to this other question. (The last part about normal humans being afraid.)
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    Apr 3 at 5:59













  • 1




    $begingroup$
    "Stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B:" in this sentence the word "identical" cannot possibly mean "identical". Two different persons, even "identical" twins, have different neural connectomes.
    $endgroup$
    – AlexP
    Apr 2 at 16:31










  • $begingroup$
    For a similar consequence to this ability, please read my answer to this other question. (The last part about normal humans being afraid.)
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    Apr 3 at 5:59








1




1




$begingroup$
"Stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B:" in this sentence the word "identical" cannot possibly mean "identical". Two different persons, even "identical" twins, have different neural connectomes.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
Apr 2 at 16:31




$begingroup$
"Stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B:" in this sentence the word "identical" cannot possibly mean "identical". Two different persons, even "identical" twins, have different neural connectomes.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
Apr 2 at 16:31












$begingroup$
For a similar consequence to this ability, please read my answer to this other question. (The last part about normal humans being afraid.)
$endgroup$
– JBH
Apr 3 at 5:59





$begingroup$
For a similar consequence to this ability, please read my answer to this other question. (The last part about normal humans being afraid.)
$endgroup$
– JBH
Apr 3 at 5:59











5 Answers
5






active

oldest

votes


















26












$begingroup$


a machine that perfectly maps out the way in which neurons fire in Patient A regarding a certain memory, and then to stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B, so as to allow them to live that memory or even believe it to be theirs?




This can only work if the wiring of the neurons in our brain is standardized and homogeneous like the circuitry in a high end smartphone. Sadly, that's not the case.



It is known that from the moment we are born any experience we have remodel the neurons and their connection: those more used are kept, those unused are discarded. This means that no two persons have the same neurons and connections. Thus, at most, firing pattern(A) into B would result in noise, like opening an encrypted file without unencrypting it.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$








  • 5




    $begingroup$
    I broadly agree with you here, but it's not entirely inconceivable (especially in a scifi setting) that structure mapped from one brain might be comprehensible in some way to another. Consider e.g. the concept of transfer learning with deep neural networks, and the fact that our brains do encode information similarly - not in terms of specific connections, but architecturally. Of course it wouldn't be plug-and-play, but rather incorporated or reified in some gradual way.
    $endgroup$
    – John K
    Apr 2 at 19:17







  • 3




    $begingroup$
    "an identical firing of neurons" - that's where the OP went wrong. Map both brains and port the data into the other. There's no reason the title can't be true, but the context fails miserably.
    $endgroup$
    – Mazura
    Apr 3 at 2:48


















9












$begingroup$

To "replicate such firing" is, as noted, impossible in 2 different brains. They are just too different. However, consider that right now, you are reading these words and my thoughts are becoming your thoughts. We have both spent years learning English in order that these formations of black and white pixels fire the correct neurons. This learning process standardized our brains. Not on a neuron basis, but on a concept basis.



If the machine can see these concepts, and create and connect new neurons to hold these concepts, to do "direct neural learning" the machine would need to know how both brains encode concepts and translate from one to the other. So if you wanted to learn physics from Einstein, you'd also need anything tangentially related in his brain: basic math, calculus, German, patent office forms. The machine could match his basic math to your basic math, concept by concept, neuron by neuron, and so on, and create only additional the neurons it needs to encode new concepts. (Or just overwrite vast sections of your brain! You'd know physics, but might be confused as to why you are not in Princeton in 1955.)



Computers do this all the time with emulators, cross compilers, Just In Time compilers, boot loaders, and whatever WINE is (WINE Is Not an Emulator), but computer memory is easily mapped and insignificant by comparison.






share|improve this answer








New contributor




user3062014 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$




















    7












    $begingroup$

    No, each person brain is different and the map from one will not produce the same results in another.



    Due to plasticity and how each brain is individually trained to your sensory organs and experiences each memory in each brain is unique. Each brain a has a unique map of connections called a Connectome. A perfect copy of someone else's memory would require identical brains otherwise the linkages will not match up with the rest of the brain. Your map for concepts is not identical to mine, so the connections will not be to the same concepts. Your spliced inot connections will produce nonsense. Research into artificial senses show the same problem, their solution is an extended process by which the brain and the interface learn each others connections, basically the same way you learn to see with your eyes as a baby.



    additional source






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$








    • 1




      $begingroup$
      This drives home your point about plasticity and individuation of connectomes - from Wikipedia Connectome>Neuroplasticity: "Microscale rewiring is the formation or removal of synaptic connections between two neurons and can be studied with longitudinal two-photon imaging. Dendritic spines on pyramidal neurons can be shown forming within days following sensory experience and learning.[33][34][35] Changes can even be seen within five hours on apical tufts of layer five pyramidal neurons in the primary motor cortex after a seed reaching task in primates.[35]"
      $endgroup$
      – GerardFalla
      Apr 2 at 18:17


















    0












    $begingroup$

    I recall reading an article where scientists did this with mice:
    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/meet-two-scientists-who-implanted-false-memory-mouse-180953045/



    I don't see why, with sufficiently advanced technology, we couldn't do something similar in humans.



    I suppose it would depend on how vivid and complex you want the memory to be.






    share|improve this answer








    New contributor




    lewkir is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.






    $endgroup$




















      -1












      $begingroup$

      Actual experiment with snails: https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-44111476



      This involved transferring RNA rather than some targeted electrical stimulation. Which strongly suggests that we don't really know much about how memories are stored.






      share|improve this answer








      New contributor




      jakub_d is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.






      $endgroup$













        Your Answer





        StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
        return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
        StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
        StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
        );
        );
        , "mathjax-editing");

        StackExchange.ready(function()
        var channelOptions =
        tags: "".split(" "),
        id: "579"
        ;
        initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

        StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
        // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
        if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
        StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
        createEditor();
        );

        else
        createEditor();

        );

        function createEditor()
        StackExchange.prepareEditor(
        heartbeatType: 'answer',
        autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
        convertImagesToLinks: false,
        noModals: true,
        showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
        reputationToPostImages: null,
        bindNavPrevention: true,
        postfix: "",
        imageUploader:
        brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
        contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
        allowUrls: true
        ,
        noCode: true, onDemand: true,
        discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
        ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
        );



        );






        Red Robin is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









        draft saved

        draft discarded


















        StackExchange.ready(
        function ()
        StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fworldbuilding.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f143037%2fis-it-possible-to-map-the-firing-of-neurons-in-the-human-brain-so-as-to-stimulat%23new-answer', 'question_page');

        );

        Post as a guest















        Required, but never shown

























        5 Answers
        5






        active

        oldest

        votes








        5 Answers
        5






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes









        26












        $begingroup$


        a machine that perfectly maps out the way in which neurons fire in Patient A regarding a certain memory, and then to stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B, so as to allow them to live that memory or even believe it to be theirs?




        This can only work if the wiring of the neurons in our brain is standardized and homogeneous like the circuitry in a high end smartphone. Sadly, that's not the case.



        It is known that from the moment we are born any experience we have remodel the neurons and their connection: those more used are kept, those unused are discarded. This means that no two persons have the same neurons and connections. Thus, at most, firing pattern(A) into B would result in noise, like opening an encrypted file without unencrypting it.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$








        • 5




          $begingroup$
          I broadly agree with you here, but it's not entirely inconceivable (especially in a scifi setting) that structure mapped from one brain might be comprehensible in some way to another. Consider e.g. the concept of transfer learning with deep neural networks, and the fact that our brains do encode information similarly - not in terms of specific connections, but architecturally. Of course it wouldn't be plug-and-play, but rather incorporated or reified in some gradual way.
          $endgroup$
          – John K
          Apr 2 at 19:17







        • 3




          $begingroup$
          "an identical firing of neurons" - that's where the OP went wrong. Map both brains and port the data into the other. There's no reason the title can't be true, but the context fails miserably.
          $endgroup$
          – Mazura
          Apr 3 at 2:48















        26












        $begingroup$


        a machine that perfectly maps out the way in which neurons fire in Patient A regarding a certain memory, and then to stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B, so as to allow them to live that memory or even believe it to be theirs?




        This can only work if the wiring of the neurons in our brain is standardized and homogeneous like the circuitry in a high end smartphone. Sadly, that's not the case.



        It is known that from the moment we are born any experience we have remodel the neurons and their connection: those more used are kept, those unused are discarded. This means that no two persons have the same neurons and connections. Thus, at most, firing pattern(A) into B would result in noise, like opening an encrypted file without unencrypting it.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$








        • 5




          $begingroup$
          I broadly agree with you here, but it's not entirely inconceivable (especially in a scifi setting) that structure mapped from one brain might be comprehensible in some way to another. Consider e.g. the concept of transfer learning with deep neural networks, and the fact that our brains do encode information similarly - not in terms of specific connections, but architecturally. Of course it wouldn't be plug-and-play, but rather incorporated or reified in some gradual way.
          $endgroup$
          – John K
          Apr 2 at 19:17







        • 3




          $begingroup$
          "an identical firing of neurons" - that's where the OP went wrong. Map both brains and port the data into the other. There's no reason the title can't be true, but the context fails miserably.
          $endgroup$
          – Mazura
          Apr 3 at 2:48













        26












        26








        26





        $begingroup$


        a machine that perfectly maps out the way in which neurons fire in Patient A regarding a certain memory, and then to stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B, so as to allow them to live that memory or even believe it to be theirs?




        This can only work if the wiring of the neurons in our brain is standardized and homogeneous like the circuitry in a high end smartphone. Sadly, that's not the case.



        It is known that from the moment we are born any experience we have remodel the neurons and their connection: those more used are kept, those unused are discarded. This means that no two persons have the same neurons and connections. Thus, at most, firing pattern(A) into B would result in noise, like opening an encrypted file without unencrypting it.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$




        a machine that perfectly maps out the way in which neurons fire in Patient A regarding a certain memory, and then to stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B, so as to allow them to live that memory or even believe it to be theirs?




        This can only work if the wiring of the neurons in our brain is standardized and homogeneous like the circuitry in a high end smartphone. Sadly, that's not the case.



        It is known that from the moment we are born any experience we have remodel the neurons and their connection: those more used are kept, those unused are discarded. This means that no two persons have the same neurons and connections. Thus, at most, firing pattern(A) into B would result in noise, like opening an encrypted file without unencrypting it.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered Apr 2 at 16:23









        L.DutchL.Dutch

        90.4k29209437




        90.4k29209437







        • 5




          $begingroup$
          I broadly agree with you here, but it's not entirely inconceivable (especially in a scifi setting) that structure mapped from one brain might be comprehensible in some way to another. Consider e.g. the concept of transfer learning with deep neural networks, and the fact that our brains do encode information similarly - not in terms of specific connections, but architecturally. Of course it wouldn't be plug-and-play, but rather incorporated or reified in some gradual way.
          $endgroup$
          – John K
          Apr 2 at 19:17







        • 3




          $begingroup$
          "an identical firing of neurons" - that's where the OP went wrong. Map both brains and port the data into the other. There's no reason the title can't be true, but the context fails miserably.
          $endgroup$
          – Mazura
          Apr 3 at 2:48












        • 5




          $begingroup$
          I broadly agree with you here, but it's not entirely inconceivable (especially in a scifi setting) that structure mapped from one brain might be comprehensible in some way to another. Consider e.g. the concept of transfer learning with deep neural networks, and the fact that our brains do encode information similarly - not in terms of specific connections, but architecturally. Of course it wouldn't be plug-and-play, but rather incorporated or reified in some gradual way.
          $endgroup$
          – John K
          Apr 2 at 19:17







        • 3




          $begingroup$
          "an identical firing of neurons" - that's where the OP went wrong. Map both brains and port the data into the other. There's no reason the title can't be true, but the context fails miserably.
          $endgroup$
          – Mazura
          Apr 3 at 2:48







        5




        5




        $begingroup$
        I broadly agree with you here, but it's not entirely inconceivable (especially in a scifi setting) that structure mapped from one brain might be comprehensible in some way to another. Consider e.g. the concept of transfer learning with deep neural networks, and the fact that our brains do encode information similarly - not in terms of specific connections, but architecturally. Of course it wouldn't be plug-and-play, but rather incorporated or reified in some gradual way.
        $endgroup$
        – John K
        Apr 2 at 19:17





        $begingroup$
        I broadly agree with you here, but it's not entirely inconceivable (especially in a scifi setting) that structure mapped from one brain might be comprehensible in some way to another. Consider e.g. the concept of transfer learning with deep neural networks, and the fact that our brains do encode information similarly - not in terms of specific connections, but architecturally. Of course it wouldn't be plug-and-play, but rather incorporated or reified in some gradual way.
        $endgroup$
        – John K
        Apr 2 at 19:17





        3




        3




        $begingroup$
        "an identical firing of neurons" - that's where the OP went wrong. Map both brains and port the data into the other. There's no reason the title can't be true, but the context fails miserably.
        $endgroup$
        – Mazura
        Apr 3 at 2:48




        $begingroup$
        "an identical firing of neurons" - that's where the OP went wrong. Map both brains and port the data into the other. There's no reason the title can't be true, but the context fails miserably.
        $endgroup$
        – Mazura
        Apr 3 at 2:48











        9












        $begingroup$

        To "replicate such firing" is, as noted, impossible in 2 different brains. They are just too different. However, consider that right now, you are reading these words and my thoughts are becoming your thoughts. We have both spent years learning English in order that these formations of black and white pixels fire the correct neurons. This learning process standardized our brains. Not on a neuron basis, but on a concept basis.



        If the machine can see these concepts, and create and connect new neurons to hold these concepts, to do "direct neural learning" the machine would need to know how both brains encode concepts and translate from one to the other. So if you wanted to learn physics from Einstein, you'd also need anything tangentially related in his brain: basic math, calculus, German, patent office forms. The machine could match his basic math to your basic math, concept by concept, neuron by neuron, and so on, and create only additional the neurons it needs to encode new concepts. (Or just overwrite vast sections of your brain! You'd know physics, but might be confused as to why you are not in Princeton in 1955.)



        Computers do this all the time with emulators, cross compilers, Just In Time compilers, boot loaders, and whatever WINE is (WINE Is Not an Emulator), but computer memory is easily mapped and insignificant by comparison.






        share|improve this answer








        New contributor




        user3062014 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.






        $endgroup$

















          9












          $begingroup$

          To "replicate such firing" is, as noted, impossible in 2 different brains. They are just too different. However, consider that right now, you are reading these words and my thoughts are becoming your thoughts. We have both spent years learning English in order that these formations of black and white pixels fire the correct neurons. This learning process standardized our brains. Not on a neuron basis, but on a concept basis.



          If the machine can see these concepts, and create and connect new neurons to hold these concepts, to do "direct neural learning" the machine would need to know how both brains encode concepts and translate from one to the other. So if you wanted to learn physics from Einstein, you'd also need anything tangentially related in his brain: basic math, calculus, German, patent office forms. The machine could match his basic math to your basic math, concept by concept, neuron by neuron, and so on, and create only additional the neurons it needs to encode new concepts. (Or just overwrite vast sections of your brain! You'd know physics, but might be confused as to why you are not in Princeton in 1955.)



          Computers do this all the time with emulators, cross compilers, Just In Time compilers, boot loaders, and whatever WINE is (WINE Is Not an Emulator), but computer memory is easily mapped and insignificant by comparison.






          share|improve this answer








          New contributor




          user3062014 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.






          $endgroup$















            9












            9








            9





            $begingroup$

            To "replicate such firing" is, as noted, impossible in 2 different brains. They are just too different. However, consider that right now, you are reading these words and my thoughts are becoming your thoughts. We have both spent years learning English in order that these formations of black and white pixels fire the correct neurons. This learning process standardized our brains. Not on a neuron basis, but on a concept basis.



            If the machine can see these concepts, and create and connect new neurons to hold these concepts, to do "direct neural learning" the machine would need to know how both brains encode concepts and translate from one to the other. So if you wanted to learn physics from Einstein, you'd also need anything tangentially related in his brain: basic math, calculus, German, patent office forms. The machine could match his basic math to your basic math, concept by concept, neuron by neuron, and so on, and create only additional the neurons it needs to encode new concepts. (Or just overwrite vast sections of your brain! You'd know physics, but might be confused as to why you are not in Princeton in 1955.)



            Computers do this all the time with emulators, cross compilers, Just In Time compilers, boot loaders, and whatever WINE is (WINE Is Not an Emulator), but computer memory is easily mapped and insignificant by comparison.






            share|improve this answer








            New contributor




            user3062014 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.






            $endgroup$



            To "replicate such firing" is, as noted, impossible in 2 different brains. They are just too different. However, consider that right now, you are reading these words and my thoughts are becoming your thoughts. We have both spent years learning English in order that these formations of black and white pixels fire the correct neurons. This learning process standardized our brains. Not on a neuron basis, but on a concept basis.



            If the machine can see these concepts, and create and connect new neurons to hold these concepts, to do "direct neural learning" the machine would need to know how both brains encode concepts and translate from one to the other. So if you wanted to learn physics from Einstein, you'd also need anything tangentially related in his brain: basic math, calculus, German, patent office forms. The machine could match his basic math to your basic math, concept by concept, neuron by neuron, and so on, and create only additional the neurons it needs to encode new concepts. (Or just overwrite vast sections of your brain! You'd know physics, but might be confused as to why you are not in Princeton in 1955.)



            Computers do this all the time with emulators, cross compilers, Just In Time compilers, boot loaders, and whatever WINE is (WINE Is Not an Emulator), but computer memory is easily mapped and insignificant by comparison.







            share|improve this answer








            New contributor




            user3062014 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.









            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer






            New contributor




            user3062014 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.









            answered Apr 2 at 21:16









            user3062014user3062014

            911




            911




            New contributor




            user3062014 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.





            New contributor





            user3062014 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.






            user3062014 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.





















                7












                $begingroup$

                No, each person brain is different and the map from one will not produce the same results in another.



                Due to plasticity and how each brain is individually trained to your sensory organs and experiences each memory in each brain is unique. Each brain a has a unique map of connections called a Connectome. A perfect copy of someone else's memory would require identical brains otherwise the linkages will not match up with the rest of the brain. Your map for concepts is not identical to mine, so the connections will not be to the same concepts. Your spliced inot connections will produce nonsense. Research into artificial senses show the same problem, their solution is an extended process by which the brain and the interface learn each others connections, basically the same way you learn to see with your eyes as a baby.



                additional source






                share|improve this answer











                $endgroup$








                • 1




                  $begingroup$
                  This drives home your point about plasticity and individuation of connectomes - from Wikipedia Connectome>Neuroplasticity: "Microscale rewiring is the formation or removal of synaptic connections between two neurons and can be studied with longitudinal two-photon imaging. Dendritic spines on pyramidal neurons can be shown forming within days following sensory experience and learning.[33][34][35] Changes can even be seen within five hours on apical tufts of layer five pyramidal neurons in the primary motor cortex after a seed reaching task in primates.[35]"
                  $endgroup$
                  – GerardFalla
                  Apr 2 at 18:17















                7












                $begingroup$

                No, each person brain is different and the map from one will not produce the same results in another.



                Due to plasticity and how each brain is individually trained to your sensory organs and experiences each memory in each brain is unique. Each brain a has a unique map of connections called a Connectome. A perfect copy of someone else's memory would require identical brains otherwise the linkages will not match up with the rest of the brain. Your map for concepts is not identical to mine, so the connections will not be to the same concepts. Your spliced inot connections will produce nonsense. Research into artificial senses show the same problem, their solution is an extended process by which the brain and the interface learn each others connections, basically the same way you learn to see with your eyes as a baby.



                additional source






                share|improve this answer











                $endgroup$








                • 1




                  $begingroup$
                  This drives home your point about plasticity and individuation of connectomes - from Wikipedia Connectome>Neuroplasticity: "Microscale rewiring is the formation or removal of synaptic connections between two neurons and can be studied with longitudinal two-photon imaging. Dendritic spines on pyramidal neurons can be shown forming within days following sensory experience and learning.[33][34][35] Changes can even be seen within five hours on apical tufts of layer five pyramidal neurons in the primary motor cortex after a seed reaching task in primates.[35]"
                  $endgroup$
                  – GerardFalla
                  Apr 2 at 18:17













                7












                7








                7





                $begingroup$

                No, each person brain is different and the map from one will not produce the same results in another.



                Due to plasticity and how each brain is individually trained to your sensory organs and experiences each memory in each brain is unique. Each brain a has a unique map of connections called a Connectome. A perfect copy of someone else's memory would require identical brains otherwise the linkages will not match up with the rest of the brain. Your map for concepts is not identical to mine, so the connections will not be to the same concepts. Your spliced inot connections will produce nonsense. Research into artificial senses show the same problem, their solution is an extended process by which the brain and the interface learn each others connections, basically the same way you learn to see with your eyes as a baby.



                additional source






                share|improve this answer











                $endgroup$



                No, each person brain is different and the map from one will not produce the same results in another.



                Due to plasticity and how each brain is individually trained to your sensory organs and experiences each memory in each brain is unique. Each brain a has a unique map of connections called a Connectome. A perfect copy of someone else's memory would require identical brains otherwise the linkages will not match up with the rest of the brain. Your map for concepts is not identical to mine, so the connections will not be to the same concepts. Your spliced inot connections will produce nonsense. Research into artificial senses show the same problem, their solution is an extended process by which the brain and the interface learn each others connections, basically the same way you learn to see with your eyes as a baby.



                additional source







                share|improve this answer














                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer








                edited Apr 2 at 17:01









                Renan

                52.6k15120261




                52.6k15120261










                answered Apr 2 at 16:45









                JohnJohn

                36.1k1048122




                36.1k1048122







                • 1




                  $begingroup$
                  This drives home your point about plasticity and individuation of connectomes - from Wikipedia Connectome>Neuroplasticity: "Microscale rewiring is the formation or removal of synaptic connections between two neurons and can be studied with longitudinal two-photon imaging. Dendritic spines on pyramidal neurons can be shown forming within days following sensory experience and learning.[33][34][35] Changes can even be seen within five hours on apical tufts of layer five pyramidal neurons in the primary motor cortex after a seed reaching task in primates.[35]"
                  $endgroup$
                  – GerardFalla
                  Apr 2 at 18:17












                • 1




                  $begingroup$
                  This drives home your point about plasticity and individuation of connectomes - from Wikipedia Connectome>Neuroplasticity: "Microscale rewiring is the formation or removal of synaptic connections between two neurons and can be studied with longitudinal two-photon imaging. Dendritic spines on pyramidal neurons can be shown forming within days following sensory experience and learning.[33][34][35] Changes can even be seen within five hours on apical tufts of layer five pyramidal neurons in the primary motor cortex after a seed reaching task in primates.[35]"
                  $endgroup$
                  – GerardFalla
                  Apr 2 at 18:17







                1




                1




                $begingroup$
                This drives home your point about plasticity and individuation of connectomes - from Wikipedia Connectome>Neuroplasticity: "Microscale rewiring is the formation or removal of synaptic connections between two neurons and can be studied with longitudinal two-photon imaging. Dendritic spines on pyramidal neurons can be shown forming within days following sensory experience and learning.[33][34][35] Changes can even be seen within five hours on apical tufts of layer five pyramidal neurons in the primary motor cortex after a seed reaching task in primates.[35]"
                $endgroup$
                – GerardFalla
                Apr 2 at 18:17




                $begingroup$
                This drives home your point about plasticity and individuation of connectomes - from Wikipedia Connectome>Neuroplasticity: "Microscale rewiring is the formation or removal of synaptic connections between two neurons and can be studied with longitudinal two-photon imaging. Dendritic spines on pyramidal neurons can be shown forming within days following sensory experience and learning.[33][34][35] Changes can even be seen within five hours on apical tufts of layer five pyramidal neurons in the primary motor cortex after a seed reaching task in primates.[35]"
                $endgroup$
                – GerardFalla
                Apr 2 at 18:17











                0












                $begingroup$

                I recall reading an article where scientists did this with mice:
                https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/meet-two-scientists-who-implanted-false-memory-mouse-180953045/



                I don't see why, with sufficiently advanced technology, we couldn't do something similar in humans.



                I suppose it would depend on how vivid and complex you want the memory to be.






                share|improve this answer








                New contributor




                lewkir is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.






                $endgroup$

















                  0












                  $begingroup$

                  I recall reading an article where scientists did this with mice:
                  https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/meet-two-scientists-who-implanted-false-memory-mouse-180953045/



                  I don't see why, with sufficiently advanced technology, we couldn't do something similar in humans.



                  I suppose it would depend on how vivid and complex you want the memory to be.






                  share|improve this answer








                  New contributor




                  lewkir is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                  Check out our Code of Conduct.






                  $endgroup$















                    0












                    0








                    0





                    $begingroup$

                    I recall reading an article where scientists did this with mice:
                    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/meet-two-scientists-who-implanted-false-memory-mouse-180953045/



                    I don't see why, with sufficiently advanced technology, we couldn't do something similar in humans.



                    I suppose it would depend on how vivid and complex you want the memory to be.






                    share|improve this answer








                    New contributor




                    lewkir is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                    Check out our Code of Conduct.






                    $endgroup$



                    I recall reading an article where scientists did this with mice:
                    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/meet-two-scientists-who-implanted-false-memory-mouse-180953045/



                    I don't see why, with sufficiently advanced technology, we couldn't do something similar in humans.



                    I suppose it would depend on how vivid and complex you want the memory to be.







                    share|improve this answer








                    New contributor




                    lewkir is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                    Check out our Code of Conduct.









                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer






                    New contributor




                    lewkir is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                    Check out our Code of Conduct.









                    answered Apr 3 at 10:29









                    lewkirlewkir

                    1




                    1




                    New contributor




                    lewkir is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                    Check out our Code of Conduct.





                    New contributor





                    lewkir is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                    Check out our Code of Conduct.






                    lewkir is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                    Check out our Code of Conduct.





















                        -1












                        $begingroup$

                        Actual experiment with snails: https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-44111476



                        This involved transferring RNA rather than some targeted electrical stimulation. Which strongly suggests that we don't really know much about how memories are stored.






                        share|improve this answer








                        New contributor




                        jakub_d is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                        Check out our Code of Conduct.






                        $endgroup$

















                          -1












                          $begingroup$

                          Actual experiment with snails: https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-44111476



                          This involved transferring RNA rather than some targeted electrical stimulation. Which strongly suggests that we don't really know much about how memories are stored.






                          share|improve this answer








                          New contributor




                          jakub_d is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.






                          $endgroup$















                            -1












                            -1








                            -1





                            $begingroup$

                            Actual experiment with snails: https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-44111476



                            This involved transferring RNA rather than some targeted electrical stimulation. Which strongly suggests that we don't really know much about how memories are stored.






                            share|improve this answer








                            New contributor




                            jakub_d is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                            Check out our Code of Conduct.






                            $endgroup$



                            Actual experiment with snails: https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-44111476



                            This involved transferring RNA rather than some targeted electrical stimulation. Which strongly suggests that we don't really know much about how memories are stored.







                            share|improve this answer








                            New contributor




                            jakub_d is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                            Check out our Code of Conduct.









                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer






                            New contributor




                            jakub_d is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                            Check out our Code of Conduct.









                            answered Apr 3 at 10:40









                            jakub_djakub_d

                            1391




                            1391




                            New contributor




                            jakub_d is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                            Check out our Code of Conduct.





                            New contributor





                            jakub_d is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                            Check out our Code of Conduct.






                            jakub_d is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                            Check out our Code of Conduct.




















                                Red Robin is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









                                draft saved

                                draft discarded


















                                Red Robin is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












                                Red Robin is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.











                                Red Robin is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.














                                Thanks for contributing an answer to Worldbuilding Stack Exchange!


                                • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                                But avoid


                                • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                                • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

                                Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                                To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                                draft saved


                                draft discarded














                                StackExchange.ready(
                                function ()
                                StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fworldbuilding.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f143037%2fis-it-possible-to-map-the-firing-of-neurons-in-the-human-brain-so-as-to-stimulat%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                                );

                                Post as a guest















                                Required, but never shown





















































                                Required, but never shown














                                Required, but never shown












                                Required, but never shown







                                Required, but never shown

































                                Required, but never shown














                                Required, but never shown












                                Required, but never shown







                                Required, but never shown







                                Popular posts from this blog

                                Tamil (spriik) Luke uk diar | Nawigatjuun

                                Align equal signs while including text over equalitiesAMS align: left aligned text/math plus multicolumn alignmentMultiple alignmentsAligning equations in multiple placesNumbering and aligning an equation with multiple columnsHow to align one equation with another multline equationUsing \ in environments inside the begintabularxNumber equations and preserving alignment of equal signsHow can I align equations to the left and to the right?Double equation alignment problem within align enviromentAligned within align: Why are they right-aligned?

                                Training a classifier when some of the features are unknownWhy does Gradient Boosting regression predict negative values when there are no negative y-values in my training set?How to improve an existing (trained) classifier?What is effect when I set up some self defined predisctor variables?Why Matlab neural network classification returns decimal values on prediction dataset?Fitting and transforming text data in training, testing, and validation setsHow to quantify the performance of the classifier (multi-class SVM) using the test data?How do I control for some patients providing multiple samples in my training data?Training and Test setTraining a convolutional neural network for image denoising in MatlabShouldn't an autoencoder with #(neurons in hidden layer) = #(neurons in input layer) be “perfect”?