Should you tell Jews they are breaking a commandment?Are you yotzei by lighting candles through a grama?Why does the Haggadah tell us that “Even if they are all Chachmim” they are obligated in Sippur?Are Noahides obligated in the commandment of Yibum?are you obligated to give testimony if you know you are pasul l'eidus?Is there anything in the torah that says that breaking one commandment means breaking all?Is the commandment 'You shall not murder' the most important commandment in Judaism?If non-Jews express their desire to do the Jewish Mitzvot; are Jews required to assist them?Sending away the mother bird, mitzvah at the onset?Can a mere thought break a commandment?Should you fire a Torah teacher if a better one is available?
Leveraging cash for buying car
Using roof rails to set up hammock
How to sort human readable size
Why can't I craft scaffolding in Minecraft 1.14?
Do my partner and son need an SSN to be dependents on my taxes?
What could be the physiological mechanism for a biological Geiger counter?
100-doors puzzle
What is this plant I saw for sale at a Romanian farmer's market?
Explicit direct #include vs. Non-contractual transitive #include
How can I detect if I'm in a subshell?
Cut power on a remote Raspberry Pi 3 via another raspi
Would a 7805 5v regulator drain a 9v battery?
What is the precise meaning of "подсел на мак"?
How did Avada Kedavra get its name?
Background for black and white chart
Testing thermite for chemical properties
When is the phrase "j'ai bon" used?
Is it a bad idea to have a pen name with only an initial for a surname?
Why is Skinner so awkward in Hot Fuzz?
Are there examples of rowers who also fought?
Have Steve Rogers (Captain America) and a young Erik Lehnsherr (Magneto) interacted during WWII?
What is the context for Napoleon's quote "[the Austrians] did not know the value of five minutes"?
How to write a nice frame challenge?
Why do you need to heat the pan before heating the olive oil?
Should you tell Jews they are breaking a commandment?
Are you yotzei by lighting candles through a grama?Why does the Haggadah tell us that “Even if they are all Chachmim” they are obligated in Sippur?Are Noahides obligated in the commandment of Yibum?are you obligated to give testimony if you know you are pasul l'eidus?Is there anything in the torah that says that breaking one commandment means breaking all?Is the commandment 'You shall not murder' the most important commandment in Judaism?If non-Jews express their desire to do the Jewish Mitzvot; are Jews required to assist them?Sending away the mother bird, mitzvah at the onset?Can a mere thought break a commandment?Should you fire a Torah teacher if a better one is available?
The Talmud says:
It is better to transgress unintentionally than intentionally. Betzah 30a
The Midrash adds:
Rabbi Shim'on ben Halafta said: One who studies the commandments of the Torah, but does not fulfill them, is punished more severely than one who never studied at all. Deuteronomy R. 7:4
I remember reading, in commentaries on the above, that Jewish law says that, in minor cases, if a rabbi determines that the people are going to do a certain wrong thing no matter what he says, it is better not to inform them that they are breaking a commandment, because by teaching them that, they would then break the commandment deliberately. Is this correct and what is the reference?
mitzvah sin teaching
edited Apr 17 at 16:13
Alex
26.4k265143
asked Apr 14 at 17:44
Maurice MizrahiMaurice Mizrahi
3,089316
add a comment |
The Talmud says:
It is better to transgress unintentionally than intentionally. Betzah 30a
The Midrash adds:
Rabbi Shim'on ben Halafta said: One who studies the commandments of the Torah, but does not fulfill them, is punished more severely than one who never studied at all. Deuteronomy R. 7:4
I remember reading, in commentaries on the above, that Jewish law says that, in minor cases, if a rabbi determines that the people are going to do a certain wrong thing no matter what he says, it is better not to inform them that they are breaking a commandment, because by teaching them that, they would then break the commandment deliberately. Is this correct and what is the reference?
mitzvah sin teaching
edited Apr 17 at 16:13
Alex
26.4k265143
asked Apr 14 at 17:44
Maurice MizrahiMaurice Mizrahi
3,089316
add a comment |
The Talmud says:
It is better to transgress unintentionally than intentionally. Betzah 30a
The Midrash adds:
Rabbi Shim'on ben Halafta said: One who studies the commandments of the Torah, but does not fulfill them, is punished more severely than one who never studied at all. Deuteronomy R. 7:4
I remember reading, in commentaries on the above, that Jewish law says that, in minor cases, if a rabbi determines that the people are going to do a certain wrong thing no matter what he says, it is better not to inform them that they are breaking a commandment, because by teaching them that, they would then break the commandment deliberately. Is this correct and what is the reference?
mitzvah sin teaching
edited Apr 17 at 16:13
Alex
26.4k265143
asked Apr 14 at 17:44
Maurice MizrahiMaurice Mizrahi
3,089316
The Talmud says:
It is better to transgress unintentionally than intentionally. Betzah 30a
The Midrash adds:
Rabbi Shim'on ben Halafta said: One who studies the commandments of the Torah, but does not fulfill them, is punished more severely than one who never studied at all. Deuteronomy R. 7:4
I remember reading, in commentaries on the above, that Jewish law says that, in minor cases, if a rabbi determines that the people are going to do a certain wrong thing no matter what he says, it is better not to inform them that they are breaking a commandment, because by teaching them that, they would then break the commandment deliberately. Is this correct and what is the reference?
mitzvah sin teaching
mitzvah sin teaching
edited Apr 17 at 16:13
Alex
26.4k265143
asked Apr 14 at 17:44
Maurice MizrahiMaurice Mizrahi
3,089316
edited Apr 17 at 16:13
Alex
26.4k265143
asked Apr 14 at 17:44
Maurice MizrahiMaurice Mizrahi
3,089316
edited Apr 17 at 16:13
Alex
26.4k265143
edited Apr 17 at 16:13
Alex
26.4k265143
edited Apr 17 at 16:13
Alex
26.4k265143
26.4k265143
asked Apr 14 at 17:44
Maurice MizrahiMaurice Mizrahi
3,089316
asked Apr 14 at 17:44
Maurice MizrahiMaurice Mizrahi
3,089316
asked Apr 14 at 17:44
Maurice MizrahiMaurice Mizrahi
3,089316
3,089316
add a comment |
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
The gemara on Shabbat 148b:
ואמר ליה רבא בר רב חנן לאביי תנן לא מספקין ולא מטפחין ולא מרקדין ביו"ט וקא חזינן דעבדין ולא אמרינן להו ולא מידי ולטעמיך הא דאמר רבא לא ליתיב איניש אפומא דלחייא דילמא מיגנדר ליה חפץ ואתי לאיתויי והא קא חזינן נמי דמותבי חצבי ויתבן אפומא דמבואה ולא אמרינן להו ולא מידי אלא הנח לישראל מוטב שיהו שוגגין ואל יהו מזידין סבור מינה הנ"מ בדרבנן אבל בדאורייתא לא ולא היא ל"ש בדרבנן ול"ש בדאורייתא דהא תוספת דיוה"כ דאורייתא היא וקא חזינן להו דקאכלי ושתו עד שתחשך ולא אמרי' להו ולא מידי:
>
And Rava bar Rav Ḥanan said to Abaye: Did we not learn in a mishna that one may not clap hands, or clap one’s hand against one’s body, or dance on a Festival? And we see, however, that people do these things, and we do not say anything to stop them. Abaye responded: And according to your reasoning, what about this halakha that Rava said: One may not sit on Shabbat at the entrance of a private alleyway next to the post, which delineates its boundaries, lest an object roll away into the public domain and he come to bring it back? And yet we see that women put down their jugs and sit at the entrance of the alleyway, and we do not say anything to stop them. Rather, in these matters we rely on a different principle: Leave the Jewish people alone, and do not rebuke them. It is better that they be unwitting in their halakhic violations and that they not be intentional sinners, for if they are told about these prohibitions they may not listen anyway.
There were those who understood from this statement that this halakha applies only to rabbinic prohibitions but not to Torah prohibitions, with regard to which we must certainly reprimand transgressors. However, that is not so. There is no difference between rabbinic prohibitions and Torah prohibitions. In both cases one does not reprimand those who violate unwittingly and would not listen to the reprimand. For the requirement of adding to Yom Kippur by beginning the fast while it is still day is from the Torah, and we see women who eat and drink on the eve of Yom Kippur up until nightfall, and we do not say anything to them. Thus, this rule, which applies to rabbinic prohibitions, applies to Torah prohibitions as well>
...
edited Apr 17 at 17:14
alicht
4,8082836
answered Apr 14 at 19:45
koutykouty
17.7k32149
That's my answer. Thanks!
– Maurice Mizrahi
Apr 14 at 23:30
add a comment |
Rema to Orach Chaim 608:2 limits the application of this principle to any law which is not explicit in the Torah (even if it is treated as a biblical law) such as the requirement to begin observing Yom Kippur a short while before sunset.
answered Apr 14 at 18:02
Joel KJoel K
16.9k230104
Not sure this exactly answers the question
– Double AA♦
Apr 14 at 18:16
@Joel K -- From your reference I found that the point is fleshed out here: ohr.edu/this_week/the_weekly_daf/250. But it says: "If the sin is one which is explicitly written in the Torah, and we can therefore assume that the sinner is aware of it, there is an obligation to offer reproof even if we are certain that it will be ignored." Why should we assume he is aware of it, especially if it's a minor matter?
– Maurice Mizrahi
Apr 14 at 18:20
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
The gemara on Shabbat 148b:
ואמר ליה רבא בר רב חנן לאביי תנן לא מספקין ולא מטפחין ולא מרקדין ביו"ט וקא חזינן דעבדין ולא אמרינן להו ולא מידי ולטעמיך הא דאמר רבא לא ליתיב איניש אפומא דלחייא דילמא מיגנדר ליה חפץ ואתי לאיתויי והא קא חזינן נמי דמותבי חצבי ויתבן אפומא דמבואה ולא אמרינן להו ולא מידי אלא הנח לישראל מוטב שיהו שוגגין ואל יהו מזידין סבור מינה הנ"מ בדרבנן אבל בדאורייתא לא ולא היא ל"ש בדרבנן ול"ש בדאורייתא דהא תוספת דיוה"כ דאורייתא היא וקא חזינן להו דקאכלי ושתו עד שתחשך ולא אמרי' להו ולא מידי:
>
And Rava bar Rav Ḥanan said to Abaye: Did we not learn in a mishna that one may not clap hands, or clap one’s hand against one’s body, or dance on a Festival? And we see, however, that people do these things, and we do not say anything to stop them. Abaye responded: And according to your reasoning, what about this halakha that Rava said: One may not sit on Shabbat at the entrance of a private alleyway next to the post, which delineates its boundaries, lest an object roll away into the public domain and he come to bring it back? And yet we see that women put down their jugs and sit at the entrance of the alleyway, and we do not say anything to stop them. Rather, in these matters we rely on a different principle: Leave the Jewish people alone, and do not rebuke them. It is better that they be unwitting in their halakhic violations and that they not be intentional sinners, for if they are told about these prohibitions they may not listen anyway.
There were those who understood from this statement that this halakha applies only to rabbinic prohibitions but not to Torah prohibitions, with regard to which we must certainly reprimand transgressors. However, that is not so. There is no difference between rabbinic prohibitions and Torah prohibitions. In both cases one does not reprimand those who violate unwittingly and would not listen to the reprimand. For the requirement of adding to Yom Kippur by beginning the fast while it is still day is from the Torah, and we see women who eat and drink on the eve of Yom Kippur up until nightfall, and we do not say anything to them. Thus, this rule, which applies to rabbinic prohibitions, applies to Torah prohibitions as well>
...
edited Apr 17 at 17:14
alicht
4,8082836
answered Apr 14 at 19:45
koutykouty
17.7k32149
That's my answer. Thanks!
– Maurice Mizrahi
Apr 14 at 23:30
add a comment |
The gemara on Shabbat 148b:
ואמר ליה רבא בר רב חנן לאביי תנן לא מספקין ולא מטפחין ולא מרקדין ביו"ט וקא חזינן דעבדין ולא אמרינן להו ולא מידי ולטעמיך הא דאמר רבא לא ליתיב איניש אפומא דלחייא דילמא מיגנדר ליה חפץ ואתי לאיתויי והא קא חזינן נמי דמותבי חצבי ויתבן אפומא דמבואה ולא אמרינן להו ולא מידי אלא הנח לישראל מוטב שיהו שוגגין ואל יהו מזידין סבור מינה הנ"מ בדרבנן אבל בדאורייתא לא ולא היא ל"ש בדרבנן ול"ש בדאורייתא דהא תוספת דיוה"כ דאורייתא היא וקא חזינן להו דקאכלי ושתו עד שתחשך ולא אמרי' להו ולא מידי:
>
And Rava bar Rav Ḥanan said to Abaye: Did we not learn in a mishna that one may not clap hands, or clap one’s hand against one’s body, or dance on a Festival? And we see, however, that people do these things, and we do not say anything to stop them. Abaye responded: And according to your reasoning, what about this halakha that Rava said: One may not sit on Shabbat at the entrance of a private alleyway next to the post, which delineates its boundaries, lest an object roll away into the public domain and he come to bring it back? And yet we see that women put down their jugs and sit at the entrance of the alleyway, and we do not say anything to stop them. Rather, in these matters we rely on a different principle: Leave the Jewish people alone, and do not rebuke them. It is better that they be unwitting in their halakhic violations and that they not be intentional sinners, for if they are told about these prohibitions they may not listen anyway.
There were those who understood from this statement that this halakha applies only to rabbinic prohibitions but not to Torah prohibitions, with regard to which we must certainly reprimand transgressors. However, that is not so. There is no difference between rabbinic prohibitions and Torah prohibitions. In both cases one does not reprimand those who violate unwittingly and would not listen to the reprimand. For the requirement of adding to Yom Kippur by beginning the fast while it is still day is from the Torah, and we see women who eat and drink on the eve of Yom Kippur up until nightfall, and we do not say anything to them. Thus, this rule, which applies to rabbinic prohibitions, applies to Torah prohibitions as well>
...
edited Apr 17 at 17:14
alicht
4,8082836
answered Apr 14 at 19:45
koutykouty
17.7k32149
That's my answer. Thanks!
– Maurice Mizrahi
Apr 14 at 23:30
add a comment |
The gemara on Shabbat 148b:
ואמר ליה רבא בר רב חנן לאביי תנן לא מספקין ולא מטפחין ולא מרקדין ביו"ט וקא חזינן דעבדין ולא אמרינן להו ולא מידי ולטעמיך הא דאמר רבא לא ליתיב איניש אפומא דלחייא דילמא מיגנדר ליה חפץ ואתי לאיתויי והא קא חזינן נמי דמותבי חצבי ויתבן אפומא דמבואה ולא אמרינן להו ולא מידי אלא הנח לישראל מוטב שיהו שוגגין ואל יהו מזידין סבור מינה הנ"מ בדרבנן אבל בדאורייתא לא ולא היא ל"ש בדרבנן ול"ש בדאורייתא דהא תוספת דיוה"כ דאורייתא היא וקא חזינן להו דקאכלי ושתו עד שתחשך ולא אמרי' להו ולא מידי:
>
And Rava bar Rav Ḥanan said to Abaye: Did we not learn in a mishna that one may not clap hands, or clap one’s hand against one’s body, or dance on a Festival? And we see, however, that people do these things, and we do not say anything to stop them. Abaye responded: And according to your reasoning, what about this halakha that Rava said: One may not sit on Shabbat at the entrance of a private alleyway next to the post, which delineates its boundaries, lest an object roll away into the public domain and he come to bring it back? And yet we see that women put down their jugs and sit at the entrance of the alleyway, and we do not say anything to stop them. Rather, in these matters we rely on a different principle: Leave the Jewish people alone, and do not rebuke them. It is better that they be unwitting in their halakhic violations and that they not be intentional sinners, for if they are told about these prohibitions they may not listen anyway.
There were those who understood from this statement that this halakha applies only to rabbinic prohibitions but not to Torah prohibitions, with regard to which we must certainly reprimand transgressors. However, that is not so. There is no difference between rabbinic prohibitions and Torah prohibitions. In both cases one does not reprimand those who violate unwittingly and would not listen to the reprimand. For the requirement of adding to Yom Kippur by beginning the fast while it is still day is from the Torah, and we see women who eat and drink on the eve of Yom Kippur up until nightfall, and we do not say anything to them. Thus, this rule, which applies to rabbinic prohibitions, applies to Torah prohibitions as well>
...
edited Apr 17 at 17:14
alicht
4,8082836
answered Apr 14 at 19:45
koutykouty
17.7k32149
The gemara on Shabbat 148b:
ואמר ליה רבא בר רב חנן לאביי תנן לא מספקין ולא מטפחין ולא מרקדין ביו"ט וקא חזינן דעבדין ולא אמרינן להו ולא מידי ולטעמיך הא דאמר רבא לא ליתיב איניש אפומא דלחייא דילמא מיגנדר ליה חפץ ואתי לאיתויי והא קא חזינן נמי דמותבי חצבי ויתבן אפומא דמבואה ולא אמרינן להו ולא מידי אלא הנח לישראל מוטב שיהו שוגגין ואל יהו מזידין סבור מינה הנ"מ בדרבנן אבל בדאורייתא לא ולא היא ל"ש בדרבנן ול"ש בדאורייתא דהא תוספת דיוה"כ דאורייתא היא וקא חזינן להו דקאכלי ושתו עד שתחשך ולא אמרי' להו ולא מידי:
>
And Rava bar Rav Ḥanan said to Abaye: Did we not learn in a mishna that one may not clap hands, or clap one’s hand against one’s body, or dance on a Festival? And we see, however, that people do these things, and we do not say anything to stop them. Abaye responded: And according to your reasoning, what about this halakha that Rava said: One may not sit on Shabbat at the entrance of a private alleyway next to the post, which delineates its boundaries, lest an object roll away into the public domain and he come to bring it back? And yet we see that women put down their jugs and sit at the entrance of the alleyway, and we do not say anything to stop them. Rather, in these matters we rely on a different principle: Leave the Jewish people alone, and do not rebuke them. It is better that they be unwitting in their halakhic violations and that they not be intentional sinners, for if they are told about these prohibitions they may not listen anyway.
There were those who understood from this statement that this halakha applies only to rabbinic prohibitions but not to Torah prohibitions, with regard to which we must certainly reprimand transgressors. However, that is not so. There is no difference between rabbinic prohibitions and Torah prohibitions. In both cases one does not reprimand those who violate unwittingly and would not listen to the reprimand. For the requirement of adding to Yom Kippur by beginning the fast while it is still day is from the Torah, and we see women who eat and drink on the eve of Yom Kippur up until nightfall, and we do not say anything to them. Thus, this rule, which applies to rabbinic prohibitions, applies to Torah prohibitions as well>
...
edited Apr 17 at 17:14
alicht
4,8082836
answered Apr 14 at 19:45
koutykouty
17.7k32149
edited Apr 17 at 17:14
alicht
4,8082836
edited Apr 17 at 17:14
alicht
4,8082836
edited Apr 17 at 17:14
alicht
4,8082836
4,8082836
answered Apr 14 at 19:45
koutykouty
17.7k32149
answered Apr 14 at 19:45
koutykouty
17.7k32149
answered Apr 14 at 19:45
koutykouty
17.7k32149
17.7k32149
That's my answer. Thanks!
– Maurice Mizrahi
Apr 14 at 23:30
add a comment |
That's my answer. Thanks!
– Maurice Mizrahi
Apr 14 at 23:30
That's my answer. Thanks!
– Maurice Mizrahi
Apr 14 at 23:30
That's my answer. Thanks!
– Maurice Mizrahi
Apr 14 at 23:30
add a comment |
Rema to Orach Chaim 608:2 limits the application of this principle to any law which is not explicit in the Torah (even if it is treated as a biblical law) such as the requirement to begin observing Yom Kippur a short while before sunset.
answered Apr 14 at 18:02
Joel KJoel K
16.9k230104
Not sure this exactly answers the question
– Double AA♦
Apr 14 at 18:16
@Joel K -- From your reference I found that the point is fleshed out here: ohr.edu/this_week/the_weekly_daf/250. But it says: "If the sin is one which is explicitly written in the Torah, and we can therefore assume that the sinner is aware of it, there is an obligation to offer reproof even if we are certain that it will be ignored." Why should we assume he is aware of it, especially if it's a minor matter?
– Maurice Mizrahi
Apr 14 at 18:20
add a comment |
Rema to Orach Chaim 608:2 limits the application of this principle to any law which is not explicit in the Torah (even if it is treated as a biblical law) such as the requirement to begin observing Yom Kippur a short while before sunset.
answered Apr 14 at 18:02
Joel KJoel K
16.9k230104
Not sure this exactly answers the question
– Double AA♦
Apr 14 at 18:16
@Joel K -- From your reference I found that the point is fleshed out here: ohr.edu/this_week/the_weekly_daf/250. But it says: "If the sin is one which is explicitly written in the Torah, and we can therefore assume that the sinner is aware of it, there is an obligation to offer reproof even if we are certain that it will be ignored." Why should we assume he is aware of it, especially if it's a minor matter?
– Maurice Mizrahi
Apr 14 at 18:20
add a comment |
Rema to Orach Chaim 608:2 limits the application of this principle to any law which is not explicit in the Torah (even if it is treated as a biblical law) such as the requirement to begin observing Yom Kippur a short while before sunset.
answered Apr 14 at 18:02
Joel KJoel K
16.9k230104
Rema to Orach Chaim 608:2 limits the application of this principle to any law which is not explicit in the Torah (even if it is treated as a biblical law) such as the requirement to begin observing Yom Kippur a short while before sunset.
answered Apr 14 at 18:02
Joel KJoel K
16.9k230104
edited Apr 14 at 18:15
answered Apr 14 at 18:02
Joel KJoel K
16.9k230104
answered Apr 14 at 18:02
Joel KJoel K
16.9k230104
answered Apr 14 at 18:02
Joel KJoel K
16.9k230104
16.9k230104
Not sure this exactly answers the question
– Double AA♦
Apr 14 at 18:16
@Joel K -- From your reference I found that the point is fleshed out here: ohr.edu/this_week/the_weekly_daf/250. But it says: "If the sin is one which is explicitly written in the Torah, and we can therefore assume that the sinner is aware of it, there is an obligation to offer reproof even if we are certain that it will be ignored." Why should we assume he is aware of it, especially if it's a minor matter?
– Maurice Mizrahi
Apr 14 at 18:20
add a comment |
Not sure this exactly answers the question
– Double AA♦
Apr 14 at 18:16
@Joel K -- From your reference I found that the point is fleshed out here: ohr.edu/this_week/the_weekly_daf/250. But it says: "If the sin is one which is explicitly written in the Torah, and we can therefore assume that the sinner is aware of it, there is an obligation to offer reproof even if we are certain that it will be ignored." Why should we assume he is aware of it, especially if it's a minor matter?
– Maurice Mizrahi
Apr 14 at 18:20
Not sure this exactly answers the question
– Double AA♦
Apr 14 at 18:16
Not sure this exactly answers the question
– Double AA♦
Apr 14 at 18:16
@Joel K -- From your reference I found that the point is fleshed out here: ohr.edu/this_week/the_weekly_daf/250. But it says: "If the sin is one which is explicitly written in the Torah, and we can therefore assume that the sinner is aware of it, there is an obligation to offer reproof even if we are certain that it will be ignored." Why should we assume he is aware of it, especially if it's a minor matter?
– Maurice Mizrahi
Apr 14 at 18:20
@Joel K -- From your reference I found that the point is fleshed out here: ohr.edu/this_week/the_weekly_daf/250. But it says: "If the sin is one which is explicitly written in the Torah, and we can therefore assume that the sinner is aware of it, there is an obligation to offer reproof even if we are certain that it will be ignored." Why should we assume he is aware of it, especially if it's a minor matter?
– Maurice Mizrahi
Apr 14 at 18:20
add a comment |
