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Should I discuss the type of campaign with my players?


How to keep players on the plot?How do I help my players not get caught up on smaller plot points?Playing a pregame, how to keep sense of continuity in campaignHow can I effectively run a sandbox campaign playing 2 hours every week?The World Will End, But Not Tomorrow (or How to Manage Unwarranted Urgency in Players)How do I tie episodic sessions together to make larger campaign arcs?How can I keep my players interested in the main plot during an open world campaign?How to make sure the players escape but feel like it was because of their wit?






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margin-bottom:0;









31












$begingroup$


The campaign I’m preparing is designed to give the illusion of choice via side quests and an open world (not really open), but with a main story line that will be pushed into them sooner or later. The campaign is structured in acts and areas, with each area acting as a sandbox space you can’t really leave, but with an expectation the players will move on to the main plot.



Now, on one side, the campaign will be a lot more fun if the players are not completely aware of this fact and they feel they are free to do whatever they want until certain “events” just push them to go in a given direction. On the other hand, if they behave randomly or fight against the main story line it will ruin the campaign as it is not supposed to be really Sandbox play.



Should I explicitly state to them the type of campaign I’m designing or should I “demonstrate” the type of campaign and hope they’re on board with it?



It’s not a question of etiquette but more trying to decide if I’ll break the suspense by letting them know the general story arc is already on my mind... even if they intuitively already know or suspect it.










share|improve this question











$endgroup$




















    31












    $begingroup$


    The campaign I’m preparing is designed to give the illusion of choice via side quests and an open world (not really open), but with a main story line that will be pushed into them sooner or later. The campaign is structured in acts and areas, with each area acting as a sandbox space you can’t really leave, but with an expectation the players will move on to the main plot.



    Now, on one side, the campaign will be a lot more fun if the players are not completely aware of this fact and they feel they are free to do whatever they want until certain “events” just push them to go in a given direction. On the other hand, if they behave randomly or fight against the main story line it will ruin the campaign as it is not supposed to be really Sandbox play.



    Should I explicitly state to them the type of campaign I’m designing or should I “demonstrate” the type of campaign and hope they’re on board with it?



    It’s not a question of etiquette but more trying to decide if I’ll break the suspense by letting them know the general story arc is already on my mind... even if they intuitively already know or suspect it.










    share|improve this question











    $endgroup$
















      31












      31








      31


      2



      $begingroup$


      The campaign I’m preparing is designed to give the illusion of choice via side quests and an open world (not really open), but with a main story line that will be pushed into them sooner or later. The campaign is structured in acts and areas, with each area acting as a sandbox space you can’t really leave, but with an expectation the players will move on to the main plot.



      Now, on one side, the campaign will be a lot more fun if the players are not completely aware of this fact and they feel they are free to do whatever they want until certain “events” just push them to go in a given direction. On the other hand, if they behave randomly or fight against the main story line it will ruin the campaign as it is not supposed to be really Sandbox play.



      Should I explicitly state to them the type of campaign I’m designing or should I “demonstrate” the type of campaign and hope they’re on board with it?



      It’s not a question of etiquette but more trying to decide if I’ll break the suspense by letting them know the general story arc is already on my mind... even if they intuitively already know or suspect it.










      share|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      The campaign I’m preparing is designed to give the illusion of choice via side quests and an open world (not really open), but with a main story line that will be pushed into them sooner or later. The campaign is structured in acts and areas, with each area acting as a sandbox space you can’t really leave, but with an expectation the players will move on to the main plot.



      Now, on one side, the campaign will be a lot more fun if the players are not completely aware of this fact and they feel they are free to do whatever they want until certain “events” just push them to go in a given direction. On the other hand, if they behave randomly or fight against the main story line it will ruin the campaign as it is not supposed to be really Sandbox play.



      Should I explicitly state to them the type of campaign I’m designing or should I “demonstrate” the type of campaign and hope they’re on board with it?



      It’s not a question of etiquette but more trying to decide if I’ll break the suspense by letting them know the general story arc is already on my mind... even if they intuitively already know or suspect it.







      dnd-5e gm-techniques campaign-development player-communication






      share|improve this question















      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited Apr 16 at 0:11









      Chris Starnes

      6,7092 gold badges18 silver badges55 bronze badges




      6,7092 gold badges18 silver badges55 bronze badges










      asked Apr 15 at 22:23









      Jorge CórdobaJorge Córdoba

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          3 Answers
          3






          active

          oldest

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          50














          $begingroup$

          Yes, you should discuss it with them.



          First, it is important to note that "Sandbox" and "railroad" are more of a spectrum than an either-or proposition. As I understand it, you want to put at least some major events on a railroad and allow a bit more of a sandbox during the temporary stops along the rails.



          This is a perfectly valid style of play. When I am a gm, I tend to do something similar with certain major plot points preplanned and enforced. This makes it easier for me to have a deep plot and do planning while still allowing some freedom that goes beyond just shuffling from one combat to the next. When I play, I am willing to accept a certain amount of railroading if it makes my gm's job easier and makes them more inclined to develop a deep plot.



          However, I explain ahead of time to my players that certain aspects are pre-ordained and I generally appreciate the same courtesy when I am a player. This is especially pertinent right now because games that are much further towards the sandbox side seem to be the default expectation in many communities of gamers right now.



          If your players expect a certain amount of railroading then I expect most will accept it quite nicely or at least have a polite discussion about why they don't like that style. If they run into rails or walls they didn't expect though, it can breed feelings of resentment and helplessness. This is especially true if we are talking about significantly negative events that are pre-ordained.



          You haven't provided the details of your campaign, but you can probably have a detailed discussion about where on the sandbox-railroad spectrum your game will fall without spoilers. Even if you find light spoilers are necessary, I think that will still be a worthwhile tradeoff for having the discussion. Your players are likely to be much happier if they go into the game with clear expectations.



          Consider the Same Page Tool



          As John Grabanski kindly reminded me, the Same Page Tool can be helpful in having this type of discussion with your players, and it can cover several other topics as well that are often best discussed before starting a game, especially if the group has not played together before.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$










          • 5




            $begingroup$
            To add to the last part : In my experience, most player will see throught some of the railroading. Especially if they have GMing experience. And if they are savvy about fantasy stories, chances are that they already expect some of the plotpoints that the asker has in mind.
            $endgroup$
            – 3C273
            Apr 16 at 0:25






          • 3




            $begingroup$
            It's been a while since I've seen it references, but the "Same Page Tool" is exactly this. Discussing with your players what TYPE of game, it can have zero details about the plot, etc, but gives the players an understand of what 'game' they are playing and helps prevents conflicts at the table. bankuei.wordpress.com/2010/03/27/the-same-page-tool
            $endgroup$
            – John Grabanski
            Apr 16 at 20:32











          • $begingroup$
            @JohnGrabanski Good point, thanks. I'll add that.
            $endgroup$
            – TimothyAWiseman
            Apr 16 at 21:21










          • $begingroup$
            Please answer in answers, not in comments.
            $endgroup$
            – mxyzplk
            Apr 17 at 18:47


















          6














          $begingroup$

          I Have Never Seen GM Style Considered As A Spoiler



          On the one hand, you worry about the players' lack of knowledge causing them to act in ways that are not in accord with the conventions of a game which has a pre-determined main plot. This seems perfectly valid to me.



          On the other hand, you talk about ruining the "suspense" of whether there is or is not a pre-determined main plot. Critically, you're not worried about them knowing the details of the plot, just whether there is or is not one. In my mind, this is a fundamental disconnect.



          Much like genre (high fantasy, gritty fantasy, science fiction, whatever), I've never seen this broad level of GM style considered to be a spoiler.



          Your experience may vary, but I do not ever remember playing in a game or running a game where the existence of pre-determined plot arc was any kind of suspense point. At all. Nor have I ever had a player express that concern to me. Even in my earliest days of gaming, I never once sat down at the table thinking, "I hope no one spoils me as to whether this is plotted or sandbox." But I have experienced, as a GM, those unfortunate moments when I let something slip too early and spoiled some detail of the plot/background before its time. (If it's ever happened to me as a player, it slipped past me. But I bet it haunted the GM.)



          To the contrary, as a player I generally want to know something about the style of the GM, so that I can determine if we're likely to mesh and so that I act in accordance with the game setup (as you rightfully point out.)



          I always share this information with my players, as well. More than share, I try to gather or build a consensus around the style of game before I'm too far into the design process.



          At the risk of belaboring the obvious, I'll make one final related point: you can share the existence of plot (or, the degree of plotted-ness, since it is not really either-or) without revealing the details of the plot. In my experience, you can even reveal quite a bit about the type of plot ("Everybody up for a good classic Defeat The Dark Lord style game? Cool!") without ruining the suspense of the game in any meaningful way.



          So, yes, discuss with your players is my strong advice.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$






















            1














            $begingroup$

            Yes, talk to them



            but plan what to say and how to phrase it beforehand, so you find a good balance between spoling and saying nothing.




            The campaign is structured in acts and areas, with each area acting as a sandbox space you can’t really leave




            That can be phrased as " the individual chapters are sandboxes for themselves, but I may railroad the transition" [that's still badly phrased tho, you can do batter]



            Also tell them that yes, there is an already-planned main story and you expect them not to fight against it.



            That approach should cover your concerns and inform the players of what to expect without spoiling them






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$
















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              3 Answers
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              active

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              3 Answers
              3






              active

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              active

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              active

              oldest

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              50














              $begingroup$

              Yes, you should discuss it with them.



              First, it is important to note that "Sandbox" and "railroad" are more of a spectrum than an either-or proposition. As I understand it, you want to put at least some major events on a railroad and allow a bit more of a sandbox during the temporary stops along the rails.



              This is a perfectly valid style of play. When I am a gm, I tend to do something similar with certain major plot points preplanned and enforced. This makes it easier for me to have a deep plot and do planning while still allowing some freedom that goes beyond just shuffling from one combat to the next. When I play, I am willing to accept a certain amount of railroading if it makes my gm's job easier and makes them more inclined to develop a deep plot.



              However, I explain ahead of time to my players that certain aspects are pre-ordained and I generally appreciate the same courtesy when I am a player. This is especially pertinent right now because games that are much further towards the sandbox side seem to be the default expectation in many communities of gamers right now.



              If your players expect a certain amount of railroading then I expect most will accept it quite nicely or at least have a polite discussion about why they don't like that style. If they run into rails or walls they didn't expect though, it can breed feelings of resentment and helplessness. This is especially true if we are talking about significantly negative events that are pre-ordained.



              You haven't provided the details of your campaign, but you can probably have a detailed discussion about where on the sandbox-railroad spectrum your game will fall without spoilers. Even if you find light spoilers are necessary, I think that will still be a worthwhile tradeoff for having the discussion. Your players are likely to be much happier if they go into the game with clear expectations.



              Consider the Same Page Tool



              As John Grabanski kindly reminded me, the Same Page Tool can be helpful in having this type of discussion with your players, and it can cover several other topics as well that are often best discussed before starting a game, especially if the group has not played together before.






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$










              • 5




                $begingroup$
                To add to the last part : In my experience, most player will see throught some of the railroading. Especially if they have GMing experience. And if they are savvy about fantasy stories, chances are that they already expect some of the plotpoints that the asker has in mind.
                $endgroup$
                – 3C273
                Apr 16 at 0:25






              • 3




                $begingroup$
                It's been a while since I've seen it references, but the "Same Page Tool" is exactly this. Discussing with your players what TYPE of game, it can have zero details about the plot, etc, but gives the players an understand of what 'game' they are playing and helps prevents conflicts at the table. bankuei.wordpress.com/2010/03/27/the-same-page-tool
                $endgroup$
                – John Grabanski
                Apr 16 at 20:32











              • $begingroup$
                @JohnGrabanski Good point, thanks. I'll add that.
                $endgroup$
                – TimothyAWiseman
                Apr 16 at 21:21










              • $begingroup$
                Please answer in answers, not in comments.
                $endgroup$
                – mxyzplk
                Apr 17 at 18:47















              50














              $begingroup$

              Yes, you should discuss it with them.



              First, it is important to note that "Sandbox" and "railroad" are more of a spectrum than an either-or proposition. As I understand it, you want to put at least some major events on a railroad and allow a bit more of a sandbox during the temporary stops along the rails.



              This is a perfectly valid style of play. When I am a gm, I tend to do something similar with certain major plot points preplanned and enforced. This makes it easier for me to have a deep plot and do planning while still allowing some freedom that goes beyond just shuffling from one combat to the next. When I play, I am willing to accept a certain amount of railroading if it makes my gm's job easier and makes them more inclined to develop a deep plot.



              However, I explain ahead of time to my players that certain aspects are pre-ordained and I generally appreciate the same courtesy when I am a player. This is especially pertinent right now because games that are much further towards the sandbox side seem to be the default expectation in many communities of gamers right now.



              If your players expect a certain amount of railroading then I expect most will accept it quite nicely or at least have a polite discussion about why they don't like that style. If they run into rails or walls they didn't expect though, it can breed feelings of resentment and helplessness. This is especially true if we are talking about significantly negative events that are pre-ordained.



              You haven't provided the details of your campaign, but you can probably have a detailed discussion about where on the sandbox-railroad spectrum your game will fall without spoilers. Even if you find light spoilers are necessary, I think that will still be a worthwhile tradeoff for having the discussion. Your players are likely to be much happier if they go into the game with clear expectations.



              Consider the Same Page Tool



              As John Grabanski kindly reminded me, the Same Page Tool can be helpful in having this type of discussion with your players, and it can cover several other topics as well that are often best discussed before starting a game, especially if the group has not played together before.






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$










              • 5




                $begingroup$
                To add to the last part : In my experience, most player will see throught some of the railroading. Especially if they have GMing experience. And if they are savvy about fantasy stories, chances are that they already expect some of the plotpoints that the asker has in mind.
                $endgroup$
                – 3C273
                Apr 16 at 0:25






              • 3




                $begingroup$
                It's been a while since I've seen it references, but the "Same Page Tool" is exactly this. Discussing with your players what TYPE of game, it can have zero details about the plot, etc, but gives the players an understand of what 'game' they are playing and helps prevents conflicts at the table. bankuei.wordpress.com/2010/03/27/the-same-page-tool
                $endgroup$
                – John Grabanski
                Apr 16 at 20:32











              • $begingroup$
                @JohnGrabanski Good point, thanks. I'll add that.
                $endgroup$
                – TimothyAWiseman
                Apr 16 at 21:21










              • $begingroup$
                Please answer in answers, not in comments.
                $endgroup$
                – mxyzplk
                Apr 17 at 18:47













              50














              50










              50







              $begingroup$

              Yes, you should discuss it with them.



              First, it is important to note that "Sandbox" and "railroad" are more of a spectrum than an either-or proposition. As I understand it, you want to put at least some major events on a railroad and allow a bit more of a sandbox during the temporary stops along the rails.



              This is a perfectly valid style of play. When I am a gm, I tend to do something similar with certain major plot points preplanned and enforced. This makes it easier for me to have a deep plot and do planning while still allowing some freedom that goes beyond just shuffling from one combat to the next. When I play, I am willing to accept a certain amount of railroading if it makes my gm's job easier and makes them more inclined to develop a deep plot.



              However, I explain ahead of time to my players that certain aspects are pre-ordained and I generally appreciate the same courtesy when I am a player. This is especially pertinent right now because games that are much further towards the sandbox side seem to be the default expectation in many communities of gamers right now.



              If your players expect a certain amount of railroading then I expect most will accept it quite nicely or at least have a polite discussion about why they don't like that style. If they run into rails or walls they didn't expect though, it can breed feelings of resentment and helplessness. This is especially true if we are talking about significantly negative events that are pre-ordained.



              You haven't provided the details of your campaign, but you can probably have a detailed discussion about where on the sandbox-railroad spectrum your game will fall without spoilers. Even if you find light spoilers are necessary, I think that will still be a worthwhile tradeoff for having the discussion. Your players are likely to be much happier if they go into the game with clear expectations.



              Consider the Same Page Tool



              As John Grabanski kindly reminded me, the Same Page Tool can be helpful in having this type of discussion with your players, and it can cover several other topics as well that are often best discussed before starting a game, especially if the group has not played together before.






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$



              Yes, you should discuss it with them.



              First, it is important to note that "Sandbox" and "railroad" are more of a spectrum than an either-or proposition. As I understand it, you want to put at least some major events on a railroad and allow a bit more of a sandbox during the temporary stops along the rails.



              This is a perfectly valid style of play. When I am a gm, I tend to do something similar with certain major plot points preplanned and enforced. This makes it easier for me to have a deep plot and do planning while still allowing some freedom that goes beyond just shuffling from one combat to the next. When I play, I am willing to accept a certain amount of railroading if it makes my gm's job easier and makes them more inclined to develop a deep plot.



              However, I explain ahead of time to my players that certain aspects are pre-ordained and I generally appreciate the same courtesy when I am a player. This is especially pertinent right now because games that are much further towards the sandbox side seem to be the default expectation in many communities of gamers right now.



              If your players expect a certain amount of railroading then I expect most will accept it quite nicely or at least have a polite discussion about why they don't like that style. If they run into rails or walls they didn't expect though, it can breed feelings of resentment and helplessness. This is especially true if we are talking about significantly negative events that are pre-ordained.



              You haven't provided the details of your campaign, but you can probably have a detailed discussion about where on the sandbox-railroad spectrum your game will fall without spoilers. Even if you find light spoilers are necessary, I think that will still be a worthwhile tradeoff for having the discussion. Your players are likely to be much happier if they go into the game with clear expectations.



              Consider the Same Page Tool



              As John Grabanski kindly reminded me, the Same Page Tool can be helpful in having this type of discussion with your players, and it can cover several other topics as well that are often best discussed before starting a game, especially if the group has not played together before.







              share|improve this answer














              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer








              edited Apr 16 at 21:23

























              answered Apr 15 at 22:32









              TimothyAWisemanTimothyAWiseman

              21.1k2 gold badges48 silver badges104 bronze badges




              21.1k2 gold badges48 silver badges104 bronze badges










              • 5




                $begingroup$
                To add to the last part : In my experience, most player will see throught some of the railroading. Especially if they have GMing experience. And if they are savvy about fantasy stories, chances are that they already expect some of the plotpoints that the asker has in mind.
                $endgroup$
                – 3C273
                Apr 16 at 0:25






              • 3




                $begingroup$
                It's been a while since I've seen it references, but the "Same Page Tool" is exactly this. Discussing with your players what TYPE of game, it can have zero details about the plot, etc, but gives the players an understand of what 'game' they are playing and helps prevents conflicts at the table. bankuei.wordpress.com/2010/03/27/the-same-page-tool
                $endgroup$
                – John Grabanski
                Apr 16 at 20:32











              • $begingroup$
                @JohnGrabanski Good point, thanks. I'll add that.
                $endgroup$
                – TimothyAWiseman
                Apr 16 at 21:21










              • $begingroup$
                Please answer in answers, not in comments.
                $endgroup$
                – mxyzplk
                Apr 17 at 18:47












              • 5




                $begingroup$
                To add to the last part : In my experience, most player will see throught some of the railroading. Especially if they have GMing experience. And if they are savvy about fantasy stories, chances are that they already expect some of the plotpoints that the asker has in mind.
                $endgroup$
                – 3C273
                Apr 16 at 0:25






              • 3




                $begingroup$
                It's been a while since I've seen it references, but the "Same Page Tool" is exactly this. Discussing with your players what TYPE of game, it can have zero details about the plot, etc, but gives the players an understand of what 'game' they are playing and helps prevents conflicts at the table. bankuei.wordpress.com/2010/03/27/the-same-page-tool
                $endgroup$
                – John Grabanski
                Apr 16 at 20:32











              • $begingroup$
                @JohnGrabanski Good point, thanks. I'll add that.
                $endgroup$
                – TimothyAWiseman
                Apr 16 at 21:21










              • $begingroup$
                Please answer in answers, not in comments.
                $endgroup$
                – mxyzplk
                Apr 17 at 18:47







              5




              5




              $begingroup$
              To add to the last part : In my experience, most player will see throught some of the railroading. Especially if they have GMing experience. And if they are savvy about fantasy stories, chances are that they already expect some of the plotpoints that the asker has in mind.
              $endgroup$
              – 3C273
              Apr 16 at 0:25




              $begingroup$
              To add to the last part : In my experience, most player will see throught some of the railroading. Especially if they have GMing experience. And if they are savvy about fantasy stories, chances are that they already expect some of the plotpoints that the asker has in mind.
              $endgroup$
              – 3C273
              Apr 16 at 0:25




              3




              3




              $begingroup$
              It's been a while since I've seen it references, but the "Same Page Tool" is exactly this. Discussing with your players what TYPE of game, it can have zero details about the plot, etc, but gives the players an understand of what 'game' they are playing and helps prevents conflicts at the table. bankuei.wordpress.com/2010/03/27/the-same-page-tool
              $endgroup$
              – John Grabanski
              Apr 16 at 20:32





              $begingroup$
              It's been a while since I've seen it references, but the "Same Page Tool" is exactly this. Discussing with your players what TYPE of game, it can have zero details about the plot, etc, but gives the players an understand of what 'game' they are playing and helps prevents conflicts at the table. bankuei.wordpress.com/2010/03/27/the-same-page-tool
              $endgroup$
              – John Grabanski
              Apr 16 at 20:32













              $begingroup$
              @JohnGrabanski Good point, thanks. I'll add that.
              $endgroup$
              – TimothyAWiseman
              Apr 16 at 21:21




              $begingroup$
              @JohnGrabanski Good point, thanks. I'll add that.
              $endgroup$
              – TimothyAWiseman
              Apr 16 at 21:21












              $begingroup$
              Please answer in answers, not in comments.
              $endgroup$
              – mxyzplk
              Apr 17 at 18:47




              $begingroup$
              Please answer in answers, not in comments.
              $endgroup$
              – mxyzplk
              Apr 17 at 18:47













              6














              $begingroup$

              I Have Never Seen GM Style Considered As A Spoiler



              On the one hand, you worry about the players' lack of knowledge causing them to act in ways that are not in accord with the conventions of a game which has a pre-determined main plot. This seems perfectly valid to me.



              On the other hand, you talk about ruining the "suspense" of whether there is or is not a pre-determined main plot. Critically, you're not worried about them knowing the details of the plot, just whether there is or is not one. In my mind, this is a fundamental disconnect.



              Much like genre (high fantasy, gritty fantasy, science fiction, whatever), I've never seen this broad level of GM style considered to be a spoiler.



              Your experience may vary, but I do not ever remember playing in a game or running a game where the existence of pre-determined plot arc was any kind of suspense point. At all. Nor have I ever had a player express that concern to me. Even in my earliest days of gaming, I never once sat down at the table thinking, "I hope no one spoils me as to whether this is plotted or sandbox." But I have experienced, as a GM, those unfortunate moments when I let something slip too early and spoiled some detail of the plot/background before its time. (If it's ever happened to me as a player, it slipped past me. But I bet it haunted the GM.)



              To the contrary, as a player I generally want to know something about the style of the GM, so that I can determine if we're likely to mesh and so that I act in accordance with the game setup (as you rightfully point out.)



              I always share this information with my players, as well. More than share, I try to gather or build a consensus around the style of game before I'm too far into the design process.



              At the risk of belaboring the obvious, I'll make one final related point: you can share the existence of plot (or, the degree of plotted-ness, since it is not really either-or) without revealing the details of the plot. In my experience, you can even reveal quite a bit about the type of plot ("Everybody up for a good classic Defeat The Dark Lord style game? Cool!") without ruining the suspense of the game in any meaningful way.



              So, yes, discuss with your players is my strong advice.






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$



















                6














                $begingroup$

                I Have Never Seen GM Style Considered As A Spoiler



                On the one hand, you worry about the players' lack of knowledge causing them to act in ways that are not in accord with the conventions of a game which has a pre-determined main plot. This seems perfectly valid to me.



                On the other hand, you talk about ruining the "suspense" of whether there is or is not a pre-determined main plot. Critically, you're not worried about them knowing the details of the plot, just whether there is or is not one. In my mind, this is a fundamental disconnect.



                Much like genre (high fantasy, gritty fantasy, science fiction, whatever), I've never seen this broad level of GM style considered to be a spoiler.



                Your experience may vary, but I do not ever remember playing in a game or running a game where the existence of pre-determined plot arc was any kind of suspense point. At all. Nor have I ever had a player express that concern to me. Even in my earliest days of gaming, I never once sat down at the table thinking, "I hope no one spoils me as to whether this is plotted or sandbox." But I have experienced, as a GM, those unfortunate moments when I let something slip too early and spoiled some detail of the plot/background before its time. (If it's ever happened to me as a player, it slipped past me. But I bet it haunted the GM.)



                To the contrary, as a player I generally want to know something about the style of the GM, so that I can determine if we're likely to mesh and so that I act in accordance with the game setup (as you rightfully point out.)



                I always share this information with my players, as well. More than share, I try to gather or build a consensus around the style of game before I'm too far into the design process.



                At the risk of belaboring the obvious, I'll make one final related point: you can share the existence of plot (or, the degree of plotted-ness, since it is not really either-or) without revealing the details of the plot. In my experience, you can even reveal quite a bit about the type of plot ("Everybody up for a good classic Defeat The Dark Lord style game? Cool!") without ruining the suspense of the game in any meaningful way.



                So, yes, discuss with your players is my strong advice.






                share|improve this answer











                $endgroup$

















                  6














                  6










                  6







                  $begingroup$

                  I Have Never Seen GM Style Considered As A Spoiler



                  On the one hand, you worry about the players' lack of knowledge causing them to act in ways that are not in accord with the conventions of a game which has a pre-determined main plot. This seems perfectly valid to me.



                  On the other hand, you talk about ruining the "suspense" of whether there is or is not a pre-determined main plot. Critically, you're not worried about them knowing the details of the plot, just whether there is or is not one. In my mind, this is a fundamental disconnect.



                  Much like genre (high fantasy, gritty fantasy, science fiction, whatever), I've never seen this broad level of GM style considered to be a spoiler.



                  Your experience may vary, but I do not ever remember playing in a game or running a game where the existence of pre-determined plot arc was any kind of suspense point. At all. Nor have I ever had a player express that concern to me. Even in my earliest days of gaming, I never once sat down at the table thinking, "I hope no one spoils me as to whether this is plotted or sandbox." But I have experienced, as a GM, those unfortunate moments when I let something slip too early and spoiled some detail of the plot/background before its time. (If it's ever happened to me as a player, it slipped past me. But I bet it haunted the GM.)



                  To the contrary, as a player I generally want to know something about the style of the GM, so that I can determine if we're likely to mesh and so that I act in accordance with the game setup (as you rightfully point out.)



                  I always share this information with my players, as well. More than share, I try to gather or build a consensus around the style of game before I'm too far into the design process.



                  At the risk of belaboring the obvious, I'll make one final related point: you can share the existence of plot (or, the degree of plotted-ness, since it is not really either-or) without revealing the details of the plot. In my experience, you can even reveal quite a bit about the type of plot ("Everybody up for a good classic Defeat The Dark Lord style game? Cool!") without ruining the suspense of the game in any meaningful way.



                  So, yes, discuss with your players is my strong advice.






                  share|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$



                  I Have Never Seen GM Style Considered As A Spoiler



                  On the one hand, you worry about the players' lack of knowledge causing them to act in ways that are not in accord with the conventions of a game which has a pre-determined main plot. This seems perfectly valid to me.



                  On the other hand, you talk about ruining the "suspense" of whether there is or is not a pre-determined main plot. Critically, you're not worried about them knowing the details of the plot, just whether there is or is not one. In my mind, this is a fundamental disconnect.



                  Much like genre (high fantasy, gritty fantasy, science fiction, whatever), I've never seen this broad level of GM style considered to be a spoiler.



                  Your experience may vary, but I do not ever remember playing in a game or running a game where the existence of pre-determined plot arc was any kind of suspense point. At all. Nor have I ever had a player express that concern to me. Even in my earliest days of gaming, I never once sat down at the table thinking, "I hope no one spoils me as to whether this is plotted or sandbox." But I have experienced, as a GM, those unfortunate moments when I let something slip too early and spoiled some detail of the plot/background before its time. (If it's ever happened to me as a player, it slipped past me. But I bet it haunted the GM.)



                  To the contrary, as a player I generally want to know something about the style of the GM, so that I can determine if we're likely to mesh and so that I act in accordance with the game setup (as you rightfully point out.)



                  I always share this information with my players, as well. More than share, I try to gather or build a consensus around the style of game before I'm too far into the design process.



                  At the risk of belaboring the obvious, I'll make one final related point: you can share the existence of plot (or, the degree of plotted-ness, since it is not really either-or) without revealing the details of the plot. In my experience, you can even reveal quite a bit about the type of plot ("Everybody up for a good classic Defeat The Dark Lord style game? Cool!") without ruining the suspense of the game in any meaningful way.



                  So, yes, discuss with your players is my strong advice.







                  share|improve this answer














                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited Apr 17 at 12:10









                  KorvinStarmast

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                  96.3k23 gold badges325 silver badges520 bronze badges










                  answered Apr 17 at 3:20









                  NovakNovak

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                  22.5k5 gold badges41 silver badges95 bronze badges
























                      1














                      $begingroup$

                      Yes, talk to them



                      but plan what to say and how to phrase it beforehand, so you find a good balance between spoling and saying nothing.




                      The campaign is structured in acts and areas, with each area acting as a sandbox space you can’t really leave




                      That can be phrased as " the individual chapters are sandboxes for themselves, but I may railroad the transition" [that's still badly phrased tho, you can do batter]



                      Also tell them that yes, there is an already-planned main story and you expect them not to fight against it.



                      That approach should cover your concerns and inform the players of what to expect without spoiling them






                      share|improve this answer











                      $endgroup$



















                        1














                        $begingroup$

                        Yes, talk to them



                        but plan what to say and how to phrase it beforehand, so you find a good balance between spoling and saying nothing.




                        The campaign is structured in acts and areas, with each area acting as a sandbox space you can’t really leave




                        That can be phrased as " the individual chapters are sandboxes for themselves, but I may railroad the transition" [that's still badly phrased tho, you can do batter]



                        Also tell them that yes, there is an already-planned main story and you expect them not to fight against it.



                        That approach should cover your concerns and inform the players of what to expect without spoiling them






                        share|improve this answer











                        $endgroup$

















                          1














                          1










                          1







                          $begingroup$

                          Yes, talk to them



                          but plan what to say and how to phrase it beforehand, so you find a good balance between spoling and saying nothing.




                          The campaign is structured in acts and areas, with each area acting as a sandbox space you can’t really leave




                          That can be phrased as " the individual chapters are sandboxes for themselves, but I may railroad the transition" [that's still badly phrased tho, you can do batter]



                          Also tell them that yes, there is an already-planned main story and you expect them not to fight against it.



                          That approach should cover your concerns and inform the players of what to expect without spoiling them






                          share|improve this answer











                          $endgroup$



                          Yes, talk to them



                          but plan what to say and how to phrase it beforehand, so you find a good balance between spoling and saying nothing.




                          The campaign is structured in acts and areas, with each area acting as a sandbox space you can’t really leave




                          That can be phrased as " the individual chapters are sandboxes for themselves, but I may railroad the transition" [that's still badly phrased tho, you can do batter]



                          Also tell them that yes, there is an already-planned main story and you expect them not to fight against it.



                          That approach should cover your concerns and inform the players of what to expect without spoiling them







                          share|improve this answer














                          share|improve this answer



                          share|improve this answer








                          edited Apr 17 at 15:14









                          Rubiksmoose

                          74.6k11 gold badges373 silver badges513 bronze badges




                          74.6k11 gold badges373 silver badges513 bronze badges










                          answered Apr 17 at 11:36









                          HobbamokHobbamok

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                          1552 silver badges7 bronze badges































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