Why is coffee provided during big chess events when it contains a banned substance?What is the TimeControl format for FIDE tournament?Is there a way to get a FIDE ID without playing in FIDE rated events?Has any chess player ever been banned because of doping?What ambiguities remain in the laws of chess?Why is there a minimum rating gain when you win?Why is the FIDE name in French?Is there a specific penalty for intentionally damaging chess pieces or the board?Why is chess failing to attract big name sponsors?Should the Laws of Chess have an overseeing board independent from FIDE?When is it appropriate for the arbiter to reduce a player's time?
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Why is coffee provided during big chess events when it contains a banned substance?
What is the TimeControl format for FIDE tournament?Is there a way to get a FIDE ID without playing in FIDE rated events?Has any chess player ever been banned because of doping?What ambiguities remain in the laws of chess?Why is there a minimum rating gain when you win?Why is the FIDE name in French?Is there a specific penalty for intentionally damaging chess pieces or the board?Why is chess failing to attract big name sponsors?Should the Laws of Chess have an overseeing board independent from FIDE?When is it appropriate for the arbiter to reduce a player's time?
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Why is coffee provided for free during big chess events like the Olympiad despite the fact that it contains caffeine, which is a banned substance according to the World Anti Doping Agency (WADA)?
fide chess-olympiad anti-doping
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Why is coffee provided for free during big chess events like the Olympiad despite the fact that it contains caffeine, which is a banned substance according to the World Anti Doping Agency (WADA)?
fide chess-olympiad anti-doping
add a comment
|
Why is coffee provided for free during big chess events like the Olympiad despite the fact that it contains caffeine, which is a banned substance according to the World Anti Doping Agency (WADA)?
fide chess-olympiad anti-doping
Why is coffee provided for free during big chess events like the Olympiad despite the fact that it contains caffeine, which is a banned substance according to the World Anti Doping Agency (WADA)?
fide chess-olympiad anti-doping
fide chess-olympiad anti-doping
edited Oct 3 at 3:17
Andrew♦
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asked Oct 2 at 20:59
Phemelo KhethoPhemelo Khetho
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3 Answers
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oldest
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According to FIDE's Anti-Doping Policy:
The 2018 WADA Prohibited List and Monitoring Program can be found at:
http://list.wada-ama.org/
The most relevant banned substances for chess are:
• Amphetamines – e.g. Adderall, Ritalin
• Ephedrine and Methylephedrine – Prohibited by WADA when its
concentration in urine is greater than 10 micrograms per milliliter
• Pseudoephedrine is prohibited when its concentration in urine is greater than
150 micrograms per milliliter
• Modafinil
Substances not present on the Prohibited List but represented in the Monitoring
Program:
• Caffeine – Included in WADA Monitoring Program and relevant for incompetition testing only. Any urine test reading of less than 12 micrograms per milliliter poses no problem.
• Codeine – A common ingredient in, for example, preparations used to treat coughs and stomach upsets. Any dosage is highly unlikely to be significant when taken in normal therapeutic quantities.
Note that caffeine is not currently banned. It was banned during the period 1984 - 2004 but was lifted. I'm guessing that sponsorship via advertising from Coca Cola may have been an important factor.
6
Any idea how much coffee one would have to drink in order to register that urine level?
– Kevin
Oct 4 at 18:44
1
About 4-5 cups of coffee, according to back-of-the-napkin math and this NCAA informational pamphlet. sportsrd.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/…
– amflare
Oct 5 at 18:19
add a comment
|
It is not prohibited would be the main answer.
Caffeine was removed from the list, and moved to the WADA "watch list", so it is not currently banned. "Bupropion, caffeine, nicotine, phenylephrine, phenylpropanolamine, pipradrol, and synephrine: These substances are included in the 2019 Monitoring Program, and are not considered Prohibited Substances." (quote taken from both the 2019 and 2020 WADA prohibited list PDF document).
"The legal limit under previous restrictions was 12 microgram/ml in urine, which is roughly equivalent to drinking 8 servings of espressos over the course of a few hours." (quote taken from nationalcoffee.blog)
add a comment
|
Because nobody seriously considers it an advantage in chess. The WADA applies to sport, where caffeine can improve performance because it's a stimulant, thus improving physical performance. In chess, however, physical performance is meaningless, and no one has ever performed a test that proves caffeine leads to better chess (as opposed to, say, faster times in a race). Indeed, since one of its side-effects is an increase in impulsiveness, it could very well prove a detriment to playing better chess.
I can see where it might yield a minor advantage in blitz, where fractions of a second in punching the clock would matter. But in normal tournaments, I'd wait until someone actually does some testing before worrying about any substance.
OK, from the comments I see I need to add some details (in no particular order):
Java language: was called Green or Oak for most of its development. Oak was already trademarked, so they couldn't use it. Kim Polese of Sun held a brainstorming session among the development team in which hundreds of names were tossed into the discussion (James Gosling said he thinks half the words in the dictionary were named at least once). No one has the definitive origin, everyone who was there tells a different story of how it started -- good luck separating truth from retcon on that. (In fact one origin story has the group handing off a set of names to Sun's Lawyers, and they picked the name. In any case, the relationship to coffee is barely mentioned in any of the stories.)
Blitz phase: standard FIDE time controls have a 30-second increment, hardly necessitating fast clock punches.
Caffeine on performance:
Can we agree to draw a line between "physical performance" and "endurance?" The former (in chess context) is a measure of the ability to rapidly and assuredly and firmly move pieces, press clock buttons, etc. The latter relates to continuous activity. I thought that distinction was obvious; equally obviously it wasn't, given some of the comments. Again, my bad.
Relative to endurance https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5752738/ is a paper that concludes, among other things, that while controlled caffeine dosages can have some effect, the dosage is idiosyncratic; pertinent quote from the abstract: "Contemporary evidence suggests current standardised guidelines are optimal for only a sub-set of the athlete population." They go on to say the effect depends upon many individual factors, which of course renders a one-size-fits-all test irrelevant. (It might be material here to note that the range they talk about as being effective equates to roughly 4-10 cups of coffee (3-9 cans of Red Bull) an hour before the game for a 100kg person. (The paper's highlighted range was 3-9mg/kg, rather an imprecise setting but there it is). Given, as I said, that caffeine is known to lead to impulsiveness, I think I'd be pleased that my opponent came to the board with, say, 8 cans in him. I'd probably pass him a couple more quite willingly.
To my mind that paper is pretty strong. Higher doses than optimum give no additional benefit, and optimum doses for an individual are unknowable without doing a workup on the individual, so precisely what benefit does the testing provide?
Of interest but perhaps limited relevance here is http://www.anusha.com/uscfdrug.htm (the USCF resolution on drug testing -- the tl;dr of it is "test if your national committees give you money, but stop thinking it's performance related, because it isn't")
We have a nebulous (extremely wide range) dosage that may cause endurance benefits in some people. Which, to me, condenses into "We can't take this seriously without a lot more research."
Caffeine is known to promote impulsive behavior, and risk-taking (a cambridge study links it with gambling addiction, brings a whole 'nother meaning to the phrase "coffeehouse chessplayer"). I'm not sure how you can translate that kind of effect into "improves chess play."
But OK, maybe "nobody cares" might have been a bit over the top. My bad. I originally wrote "nobody who's familiar with testing methods and caffeine" (which, BTW, includes WADA, who specifically do not include it on their prohibited list) but decided the generalized version would keep me from having to write a dissertation about it. Looks like I was wrong.
There are a lot of urban legends about caffeine and software (same with whisky, the phrase is "the Ballmer Peak" if you're interested). Doesn't make any of them true; a wise person views them all with skepticism.
8
Chess is still a physical activity. Whether caffeine would give a real advantage I can't say.
– curiousdannii
Oct 3 at 5:18
9
"In chess, however, physical performance is meaningless", you might wanna rethink that statement.
– BlueRine S
Oct 3 at 11:57
2
@Cloud At most of the software companies I've worked at, the answer there is "0". Research suggests that caffeine has very little actual beneficial effects aside from easing the harmful effects of caffeine withdrawal. The best performers are the ones who never fall into that trap to begin with.
– Mason Wheeler
Oct 3 at 21:37
3
This is wrong. Caffeine is a well-known cognitive enhancer. Why wouldn't it help people with chess?
– EJoshuaS - Reinstate Monica
Oct 4 at 12:08
3
Heh. I don't need to go to a software company. I work there. Yes, there's a lot of caffeine consumption. There's good code. There's also crappy code. And the amount of caffeine consumption is not significantly related to the amount of both. Another urban legend.
– Arlen
Oct 4 at 20:49
|
show 9 more comments
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3 Answers
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3 Answers
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active
oldest
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According to FIDE's Anti-Doping Policy:
The 2018 WADA Prohibited List and Monitoring Program can be found at:
http://list.wada-ama.org/
The most relevant banned substances for chess are:
• Amphetamines – e.g. Adderall, Ritalin
• Ephedrine and Methylephedrine – Prohibited by WADA when its
concentration in urine is greater than 10 micrograms per milliliter
• Pseudoephedrine is prohibited when its concentration in urine is greater than
150 micrograms per milliliter
• Modafinil
Substances not present on the Prohibited List but represented in the Monitoring
Program:
• Caffeine – Included in WADA Monitoring Program and relevant for incompetition testing only. Any urine test reading of less than 12 micrograms per milliliter poses no problem.
• Codeine – A common ingredient in, for example, preparations used to treat coughs and stomach upsets. Any dosage is highly unlikely to be significant when taken in normal therapeutic quantities.
Note that caffeine is not currently banned. It was banned during the period 1984 - 2004 but was lifted. I'm guessing that sponsorship via advertising from Coca Cola may have been an important factor.
6
Any idea how much coffee one would have to drink in order to register that urine level?
– Kevin
Oct 4 at 18:44
1
About 4-5 cups of coffee, according to back-of-the-napkin math and this NCAA informational pamphlet. sportsrd.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/…
– amflare
Oct 5 at 18:19
add a comment
|
According to FIDE's Anti-Doping Policy:
The 2018 WADA Prohibited List and Monitoring Program can be found at:
http://list.wada-ama.org/
The most relevant banned substances for chess are:
• Amphetamines – e.g. Adderall, Ritalin
• Ephedrine and Methylephedrine – Prohibited by WADA when its
concentration in urine is greater than 10 micrograms per milliliter
• Pseudoephedrine is prohibited when its concentration in urine is greater than
150 micrograms per milliliter
• Modafinil
Substances not present on the Prohibited List but represented in the Monitoring
Program:
• Caffeine – Included in WADA Monitoring Program and relevant for incompetition testing only. Any urine test reading of less than 12 micrograms per milliliter poses no problem.
• Codeine – A common ingredient in, for example, preparations used to treat coughs and stomach upsets. Any dosage is highly unlikely to be significant when taken in normal therapeutic quantities.
Note that caffeine is not currently banned. It was banned during the period 1984 - 2004 but was lifted. I'm guessing that sponsorship via advertising from Coca Cola may have been an important factor.
6
Any idea how much coffee one would have to drink in order to register that urine level?
– Kevin
Oct 4 at 18:44
1
About 4-5 cups of coffee, according to back-of-the-napkin math and this NCAA informational pamphlet. sportsrd.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/…
– amflare
Oct 5 at 18:19
add a comment
|
According to FIDE's Anti-Doping Policy:
The 2018 WADA Prohibited List and Monitoring Program can be found at:
http://list.wada-ama.org/
The most relevant banned substances for chess are:
• Amphetamines – e.g. Adderall, Ritalin
• Ephedrine and Methylephedrine – Prohibited by WADA when its
concentration in urine is greater than 10 micrograms per milliliter
• Pseudoephedrine is prohibited when its concentration in urine is greater than
150 micrograms per milliliter
• Modafinil
Substances not present on the Prohibited List but represented in the Monitoring
Program:
• Caffeine – Included in WADA Monitoring Program and relevant for incompetition testing only. Any urine test reading of less than 12 micrograms per milliliter poses no problem.
• Codeine – A common ingredient in, for example, preparations used to treat coughs and stomach upsets. Any dosage is highly unlikely to be significant when taken in normal therapeutic quantities.
Note that caffeine is not currently banned. It was banned during the period 1984 - 2004 but was lifted. I'm guessing that sponsorship via advertising from Coca Cola may have been an important factor.
According to FIDE's Anti-Doping Policy:
The 2018 WADA Prohibited List and Monitoring Program can be found at:
http://list.wada-ama.org/
The most relevant banned substances for chess are:
• Amphetamines – e.g. Adderall, Ritalin
• Ephedrine and Methylephedrine – Prohibited by WADA when its
concentration in urine is greater than 10 micrograms per milliliter
• Pseudoephedrine is prohibited when its concentration in urine is greater than
150 micrograms per milliliter
• Modafinil
Substances not present on the Prohibited List but represented in the Monitoring
Program:
• Caffeine – Included in WADA Monitoring Program and relevant for incompetition testing only. Any urine test reading of less than 12 micrograms per milliliter poses no problem.
• Codeine – A common ingredient in, for example, preparations used to treat coughs and stomach upsets. Any dosage is highly unlikely to be significant when taken in normal therapeutic quantities.
Note that caffeine is not currently banned. It was banned during the period 1984 - 2004 but was lifted. I'm guessing that sponsorship via advertising from Coca Cola may have been an important factor.
answered Oct 2 at 22:19
Brian Towers♦Brian Towers
28.5k4 gold badges62 silver badges122 bronze badges
28.5k4 gold badges62 silver badges122 bronze badges
6
Any idea how much coffee one would have to drink in order to register that urine level?
– Kevin
Oct 4 at 18:44
1
About 4-5 cups of coffee, according to back-of-the-napkin math and this NCAA informational pamphlet. sportsrd.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/…
– amflare
Oct 5 at 18:19
add a comment
|
6
Any idea how much coffee one would have to drink in order to register that urine level?
– Kevin
Oct 4 at 18:44
1
About 4-5 cups of coffee, according to back-of-the-napkin math and this NCAA informational pamphlet. sportsrd.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/…
– amflare
Oct 5 at 18:19
6
6
Any idea how much coffee one would have to drink in order to register that urine level?
– Kevin
Oct 4 at 18:44
Any idea how much coffee one would have to drink in order to register that urine level?
– Kevin
Oct 4 at 18:44
1
1
About 4-5 cups of coffee, according to back-of-the-napkin math and this NCAA informational pamphlet. sportsrd.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/…
– amflare
Oct 5 at 18:19
About 4-5 cups of coffee, according to back-of-the-napkin math and this NCAA informational pamphlet. sportsrd.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/…
– amflare
Oct 5 at 18:19
add a comment
|
It is not prohibited would be the main answer.
Caffeine was removed from the list, and moved to the WADA "watch list", so it is not currently banned. "Bupropion, caffeine, nicotine, phenylephrine, phenylpropanolamine, pipradrol, and synephrine: These substances are included in the 2019 Monitoring Program, and are not considered Prohibited Substances." (quote taken from both the 2019 and 2020 WADA prohibited list PDF document).
"The legal limit under previous restrictions was 12 microgram/ml in urine, which is roughly equivalent to drinking 8 servings of espressos over the course of a few hours." (quote taken from nationalcoffee.blog)
add a comment
|
It is not prohibited would be the main answer.
Caffeine was removed from the list, and moved to the WADA "watch list", so it is not currently banned. "Bupropion, caffeine, nicotine, phenylephrine, phenylpropanolamine, pipradrol, and synephrine: These substances are included in the 2019 Monitoring Program, and are not considered Prohibited Substances." (quote taken from both the 2019 and 2020 WADA prohibited list PDF document).
"The legal limit under previous restrictions was 12 microgram/ml in urine, which is roughly equivalent to drinking 8 servings of espressos over the course of a few hours." (quote taken from nationalcoffee.blog)
add a comment
|
It is not prohibited would be the main answer.
Caffeine was removed from the list, and moved to the WADA "watch list", so it is not currently banned. "Bupropion, caffeine, nicotine, phenylephrine, phenylpropanolamine, pipradrol, and synephrine: These substances are included in the 2019 Monitoring Program, and are not considered Prohibited Substances." (quote taken from both the 2019 and 2020 WADA prohibited list PDF document).
"The legal limit under previous restrictions was 12 microgram/ml in urine, which is roughly equivalent to drinking 8 servings of espressos over the course of a few hours." (quote taken from nationalcoffee.blog)
It is not prohibited would be the main answer.
Caffeine was removed from the list, and moved to the WADA "watch list", so it is not currently banned. "Bupropion, caffeine, nicotine, phenylephrine, phenylpropanolamine, pipradrol, and synephrine: These substances are included in the 2019 Monitoring Program, and are not considered Prohibited Substances." (quote taken from both the 2019 and 2020 WADA prohibited list PDF document).
"The legal limit under previous restrictions was 12 microgram/ml in urine, which is roughly equivalent to drinking 8 servings of espressos over the course of a few hours." (quote taken from nationalcoffee.blog)
answered Oct 2 at 21:59
PhishMasterPhishMaster
11k1 gold badge18 silver badges51 bronze badges
11k1 gold badge18 silver badges51 bronze badges
add a comment
|
add a comment
|
Because nobody seriously considers it an advantage in chess. The WADA applies to sport, where caffeine can improve performance because it's a stimulant, thus improving physical performance. In chess, however, physical performance is meaningless, and no one has ever performed a test that proves caffeine leads to better chess (as opposed to, say, faster times in a race). Indeed, since one of its side-effects is an increase in impulsiveness, it could very well prove a detriment to playing better chess.
I can see where it might yield a minor advantage in blitz, where fractions of a second in punching the clock would matter. But in normal tournaments, I'd wait until someone actually does some testing before worrying about any substance.
OK, from the comments I see I need to add some details (in no particular order):
Java language: was called Green or Oak for most of its development. Oak was already trademarked, so they couldn't use it. Kim Polese of Sun held a brainstorming session among the development team in which hundreds of names were tossed into the discussion (James Gosling said he thinks half the words in the dictionary were named at least once). No one has the definitive origin, everyone who was there tells a different story of how it started -- good luck separating truth from retcon on that. (In fact one origin story has the group handing off a set of names to Sun's Lawyers, and they picked the name. In any case, the relationship to coffee is barely mentioned in any of the stories.)
Blitz phase: standard FIDE time controls have a 30-second increment, hardly necessitating fast clock punches.
Caffeine on performance:
Can we agree to draw a line between "physical performance" and "endurance?" The former (in chess context) is a measure of the ability to rapidly and assuredly and firmly move pieces, press clock buttons, etc. The latter relates to continuous activity. I thought that distinction was obvious; equally obviously it wasn't, given some of the comments. Again, my bad.
Relative to endurance https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5752738/ is a paper that concludes, among other things, that while controlled caffeine dosages can have some effect, the dosage is idiosyncratic; pertinent quote from the abstract: "Contemporary evidence suggests current standardised guidelines are optimal for only a sub-set of the athlete population." They go on to say the effect depends upon many individual factors, which of course renders a one-size-fits-all test irrelevant. (It might be material here to note that the range they talk about as being effective equates to roughly 4-10 cups of coffee (3-9 cans of Red Bull) an hour before the game for a 100kg person. (The paper's highlighted range was 3-9mg/kg, rather an imprecise setting but there it is). Given, as I said, that caffeine is known to lead to impulsiveness, I think I'd be pleased that my opponent came to the board with, say, 8 cans in him. I'd probably pass him a couple more quite willingly.
To my mind that paper is pretty strong. Higher doses than optimum give no additional benefit, and optimum doses for an individual are unknowable without doing a workup on the individual, so precisely what benefit does the testing provide?
Of interest but perhaps limited relevance here is http://www.anusha.com/uscfdrug.htm (the USCF resolution on drug testing -- the tl;dr of it is "test if your national committees give you money, but stop thinking it's performance related, because it isn't")
We have a nebulous (extremely wide range) dosage that may cause endurance benefits in some people. Which, to me, condenses into "We can't take this seriously without a lot more research."
Caffeine is known to promote impulsive behavior, and risk-taking (a cambridge study links it with gambling addiction, brings a whole 'nother meaning to the phrase "coffeehouse chessplayer"). I'm not sure how you can translate that kind of effect into "improves chess play."
But OK, maybe "nobody cares" might have been a bit over the top. My bad. I originally wrote "nobody who's familiar with testing methods and caffeine" (which, BTW, includes WADA, who specifically do not include it on their prohibited list) but decided the generalized version would keep me from having to write a dissertation about it. Looks like I was wrong.
There are a lot of urban legends about caffeine and software (same with whisky, the phrase is "the Ballmer Peak" if you're interested). Doesn't make any of them true; a wise person views them all with skepticism.
8
Chess is still a physical activity. Whether caffeine would give a real advantage I can't say.
– curiousdannii
Oct 3 at 5:18
9
"In chess, however, physical performance is meaningless", you might wanna rethink that statement.
– BlueRine S
Oct 3 at 11:57
2
@Cloud At most of the software companies I've worked at, the answer there is "0". Research suggests that caffeine has very little actual beneficial effects aside from easing the harmful effects of caffeine withdrawal. The best performers are the ones who never fall into that trap to begin with.
– Mason Wheeler
Oct 3 at 21:37
3
This is wrong. Caffeine is a well-known cognitive enhancer. Why wouldn't it help people with chess?
– EJoshuaS - Reinstate Monica
Oct 4 at 12:08
3
Heh. I don't need to go to a software company. I work there. Yes, there's a lot of caffeine consumption. There's good code. There's also crappy code. And the amount of caffeine consumption is not significantly related to the amount of both. Another urban legend.
– Arlen
Oct 4 at 20:49
|
show 9 more comments
Because nobody seriously considers it an advantage in chess. The WADA applies to sport, where caffeine can improve performance because it's a stimulant, thus improving physical performance. In chess, however, physical performance is meaningless, and no one has ever performed a test that proves caffeine leads to better chess (as opposed to, say, faster times in a race). Indeed, since one of its side-effects is an increase in impulsiveness, it could very well prove a detriment to playing better chess.
I can see where it might yield a minor advantage in blitz, where fractions of a second in punching the clock would matter. But in normal tournaments, I'd wait until someone actually does some testing before worrying about any substance.
OK, from the comments I see I need to add some details (in no particular order):
Java language: was called Green or Oak for most of its development. Oak was already trademarked, so they couldn't use it. Kim Polese of Sun held a brainstorming session among the development team in which hundreds of names were tossed into the discussion (James Gosling said he thinks half the words in the dictionary were named at least once). No one has the definitive origin, everyone who was there tells a different story of how it started -- good luck separating truth from retcon on that. (In fact one origin story has the group handing off a set of names to Sun's Lawyers, and they picked the name. In any case, the relationship to coffee is barely mentioned in any of the stories.)
Blitz phase: standard FIDE time controls have a 30-second increment, hardly necessitating fast clock punches.
Caffeine on performance:
Can we agree to draw a line between "physical performance" and "endurance?" The former (in chess context) is a measure of the ability to rapidly and assuredly and firmly move pieces, press clock buttons, etc. The latter relates to continuous activity. I thought that distinction was obvious; equally obviously it wasn't, given some of the comments. Again, my bad.
Relative to endurance https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5752738/ is a paper that concludes, among other things, that while controlled caffeine dosages can have some effect, the dosage is idiosyncratic; pertinent quote from the abstract: "Contemporary evidence suggests current standardised guidelines are optimal for only a sub-set of the athlete population." They go on to say the effect depends upon many individual factors, which of course renders a one-size-fits-all test irrelevant. (It might be material here to note that the range they talk about as being effective equates to roughly 4-10 cups of coffee (3-9 cans of Red Bull) an hour before the game for a 100kg person. (The paper's highlighted range was 3-9mg/kg, rather an imprecise setting but there it is). Given, as I said, that caffeine is known to lead to impulsiveness, I think I'd be pleased that my opponent came to the board with, say, 8 cans in him. I'd probably pass him a couple more quite willingly.
To my mind that paper is pretty strong. Higher doses than optimum give no additional benefit, and optimum doses for an individual are unknowable without doing a workup on the individual, so precisely what benefit does the testing provide?
Of interest but perhaps limited relevance here is http://www.anusha.com/uscfdrug.htm (the USCF resolution on drug testing -- the tl;dr of it is "test if your national committees give you money, but stop thinking it's performance related, because it isn't")
We have a nebulous (extremely wide range) dosage that may cause endurance benefits in some people. Which, to me, condenses into "We can't take this seriously without a lot more research."
Caffeine is known to promote impulsive behavior, and risk-taking (a cambridge study links it with gambling addiction, brings a whole 'nother meaning to the phrase "coffeehouse chessplayer"). I'm not sure how you can translate that kind of effect into "improves chess play."
But OK, maybe "nobody cares" might have been a bit over the top. My bad. I originally wrote "nobody who's familiar with testing methods and caffeine" (which, BTW, includes WADA, who specifically do not include it on their prohibited list) but decided the generalized version would keep me from having to write a dissertation about it. Looks like I was wrong.
There are a lot of urban legends about caffeine and software (same with whisky, the phrase is "the Ballmer Peak" if you're interested). Doesn't make any of them true; a wise person views them all with skepticism.
8
Chess is still a physical activity. Whether caffeine would give a real advantage I can't say.
– curiousdannii
Oct 3 at 5:18
9
"In chess, however, physical performance is meaningless", you might wanna rethink that statement.
– BlueRine S
Oct 3 at 11:57
2
@Cloud At most of the software companies I've worked at, the answer there is "0". Research suggests that caffeine has very little actual beneficial effects aside from easing the harmful effects of caffeine withdrawal. The best performers are the ones who never fall into that trap to begin with.
– Mason Wheeler
Oct 3 at 21:37
3
This is wrong. Caffeine is a well-known cognitive enhancer. Why wouldn't it help people with chess?
– EJoshuaS - Reinstate Monica
Oct 4 at 12:08
3
Heh. I don't need to go to a software company. I work there. Yes, there's a lot of caffeine consumption. There's good code. There's also crappy code. And the amount of caffeine consumption is not significantly related to the amount of both. Another urban legend.
– Arlen
Oct 4 at 20:49
|
show 9 more comments
Because nobody seriously considers it an advantage in chess. The WADA applies to sport, where caffeine can improve performance because it's a stimulant, thus improving physical performance. In chess, however, physical performance is meaningless, and no one has ever performed a test that proves caffeine leads to better chess (as opposed to, say, faster times in a race). Indeed, since one of its side-effects is an increase in impulsiveness, it could very well prove a detriment to playing better chess.
I can see where it might yield a minor advantage in blitz, where fractions of a second in punching the clock would matter. But in normal tournaments, I'd wait until someone actually does some testing before worrying about any substance.
OK, from the comments I see I need to add some details (in no particular order):
Java language: was called Green or Oak for most of its development. Oak was already trademarked, so they couldn't use it. Kim Polese of Sun held a brainstorming session among the development team in which hundreds of names were tossed into the discussion (James Gosling said he thinks half the words in the dictionary were named at least once). No one has the definitive origin, everyone who was there tells a different story of how it started -- good luck separating truth from retcon on that. (In fact one origin story has the group handing off a set of names to Sun's Lawyers, and they picked the name. In any case, the relationship to coffee is barely mentioned in any of the stories.)
Blitz phase: standard FIDE time controls have a 30-second increment, hardly necessitating fast clock punches.
Caffeine on performance:
Can we agree to draw a line between "physical performance" and "endurance?" The former (in chess context) is a measure of the ability to rapidly and assuredly and firmly move pieces, press clock buttons, etc. The latter relates to continuous activity. I thought that distinction was obvious; equally obviously it wasn't, given some of the comments. Again, my bad.
Relative to endurance https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5752738/ is a paper that concludes, among other things, that while controlled caffeine dosages can have some effect, the dosage is idiosyncratic; pertinent quote from the abstract: "Contemporary evidence suggests current standardised guidelines are optimal for only a sub-set of the athlete population." They go on to say the effect depends upon many individual factors, which of course renders a one-size-fits-all test irrelevant. (It might be material here to note that the range they talk about as being effective equates to roughly 4-10 cups of coffee (3-9 cans of Red Bull) an hour before the game for a 100kg person. (The paper's highlighted range was 3-9mg/kg, rather an imprecise setting but there it is). Given, as I said, that caffeine is known to lead to impulsiveness, I think I'd be pleased that my opponent came to the board with, say, 8 cans in him. I'd probably pass him a couple more quite willingly.
To my mind that paper is pretty strong. Higher doses than optimum give no additional benefit, and optimum doses for an individual are unknowable without doing a workup on the individual, so precisely what benefit does the testing provide?
Of interest but perhaps limited relevance here is http://www.anusha.com/uscfdrug.htm (the USCF resolution on drug testing -- the tl;dr of it is "test if your national committees give you money, but stop thinking it's performance related, because it isn't")
We have a nebulous (extremely wide range) dosage that may cause endurance benefits in some people. Which, to me, condenses into "We can't take this seriously without a lot more research."
Caffeine is known to promote impulsive behavior, and risk-taking (a cambridge study links it with gambling addiction, brings a whole 'nother meaning to the phrase "coffeehouse chessplayer"). I'm not sure how you can translate that kind of effect into "improves chess play."
But OK, maybe "nobody cares" might have been a bit over the top. My bad. I originally wrote "nobody who's familiar with testing methods and caffeine" (which, BTW, includes WADA, who specifically do not include it on their prohibited list) but decided the generalized version would keep me from having to write a dissertation about it. Looks like I was wrong.
There are a lot of urban legends about caffeine and software (same with whisky, the phrase is "the Ballmer Peak" if you're interested). Doesn't make any of them true; a wise person views them all with skepticism.
Because nobody seriously considers it an advantage in chess. The WADA applies to sport, where caffeine can improve performance because it's a stimulant, thus improving physical performance. In chess, however, physical performance is meaningless, and no one has ever performed a test that proves caffeine leads to better chess (as opposed to, say, faster times in a race). Indeed, since one of its side-effects is an increase in impulsiveness, it could very well prove a detriment to playing better chess.
I can see where it might yield a minor advantage in blitz, where fractions of a second in punching the clock would matter. But in normal tournaments, I'd wait until someone actually does some testing before worrying about any substance.
OK, from the comments I see I need to add some details (in no particular order):
Java language: was called Green or Oak for most of its development. Oak was already trademarked, so they couldn't use it. Kim Polese of Sun held a brainstorming session among the development team in which hundreds of names were tossed into the discussion (James Gosling said he thinks half the words in the dictionary were named at least once). No one has the definitive origin, everyone who was there tells a different story of how it started -- good luck separating truth from retcon on that. (In fact one origin story has the group handing off a set of names to Sun's Lawyers, and they picked the name. In any case, the relationship to coffee is barely mentioned in any of the stories.)
Blitz phase: standard FIDE time controls have a 30-second increment, hardly necessitating fast clock punches.
Caffeine on performance:
Can we agree to draw a line between "physical performance" and "endurance?" The former (in chess context) is a measure of the ability to rapidly and assuredly and firmly move pieces, press clock buttons, etc. The latter relates to continuous activity. I thought that distinction was obvious; equally obviously it wasn't, given some of the comments. Again, my bad.
Relative to endurance https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5752738/ is a paper that concludes, among other things, that while controlled caffeine dosages can have some effect, the dosage is idiosyncratic; pertinent quote from the abstract: "Contemporary evidence suggests current standardised guidelines are optimal for only a sub-set of the athlete population." They go on to say the effect depends upon many individual factors, which of course renders a one-size-fits-all test irrelevant. (It might be material here to note that the range they talk about as being effective equates to roughly 4-10 cups of coffee (3-9 cans of Red Bull) an hour before the game for a 100kg person. (The paper's highlighted range was 3-9mg/kg, rather an imprecise setting but there it is). Given, as I said, that caffeine is known to lead to impulsiveness, I think I'd be pleased that my opponent came to the board with, say, 8 cans in him. I'd probably pass him a couple more quite willingly.
To my mind that paper is pretty strong. Higher doses than optimum give no additional benefit, and optimum doses for an individual are unknowable without doing a workup on the individual, so precisely what benefit does the testing provide?
Of interest but perhaps limited relevance here is http://www.anusha.com/uscfdrug.htm (the USCF resolution on drug testing -- the tl;dr of it is "test if your national committees give you money, but stop thinking it's performance related, because it isn't")
We have a nebulous (extremely wide range) dosage that may cause endurance benefits in some people. Which, to me, condenses into "We can't take this seriously without a lot more research."
Caffeine is known to promote impulsive behavior, and risk-taking (a cambridge study links it with gambling addiction, brings a whole 'nother meaning to the phrase "coffeehouse chessplayer"). I'm not sure how you can translate that kind of effect into "improves chess play."
But OK, maybe "nobody cares" might have been a bit over the top. My bad. I originally wrote "nobody who's familiar with testing methods and caffeine" (which, BTW, includes WADA, who specifically do not include it on their prohibited list) but decided the generalized version would keep me from having to write a dissertation about it. Looks like I was wrong.
There are a lot of urban legends about caffeine and software (same with whisky, the phrase is "the Ballmer Peak" if you're interested). Doesn't make any of them true; a wise person views them all with skepticism.
edited Oct 4 at 21:55
answered Oct 2 at 21:26
ArlenArlen
3,24517 silver badges14 bronze badges
3,24517 silver badges14 bronze badges
8
Chess is still a physical activity. Whether caffeine would give a real advantage I can't say.
– curiousdannii
Oct 3 at 5:18
9
"In chess, however, physical performance is meaningless", you might wanna rethink that statement.
– BlueRine S
Oct 3 at 11:57
2
@Cloud At most of the software companies I've worked at, the answer there is "0". Research suggests that caffeine has very little actual beneficial effects aside from easing the harmful effects of caffeine withdrawal. The best performers are the ones who never fall into that trap to begin with.
– Mason Wheeler
Oct 3 at 21:37
3
This is wrong. Caffeine is a well-known cognitive enhancer. Why wouldn't it help people with chess?
– EJoshuaS - Reinstate Monica
Oct 4 at 12:08
3
Heh. I don't need to go to a software company. I work there. Yes, there's a lot of caffeine consumption. There's good code. There's also crappy code. And the amount of caffeine consumption is not significantly related to the amount of both. Another urban legend.
– Arlen
Oct 4 at 20:49
|
show 9 more comments
8
Chess is still a physical activity. Whether caffeine would give a real advantage I can't say.
– curiousdannii
Oct 3 at 5:18
9
"In chess, however, physical performance is meaningless", you might wanna rethink that statement.
– BlueRine S
Oct 3 at 11:57
2
@Cloud At most of the software companies I've worked at, the answer there is "0". Research suggests that caffeine has very little actual beneficial effects aside from easing the harmful effects of caffeine withdrawal. The best performers are the ones who never fall into that trap to begin with.
– Mason Wheeler
Oct 3 at 21:37
3
This is wrong. Caffeine is a well-known cognitive enhancer. Why wouldn't it help people with chess?
– EJoshuaS - Reinstate Monica
Oct 4 at 12:08
3
Heh. I don't need to go to a software company. I work there. Yes, there's a lot of caffeine consumption. There's good code. There's also crappy code. And the amount of caffeine consumption is not significantly related to the amount of both. Another urban legend.
– Arlen
Oct 4 at 20:49
8
8
Chess is still a physical activity. Whether caffeine would give a real advantage I can't say.
– curiousdannii
Oct 3 at 5:18
Chess is still a physical activity. Whether caffeine would give a real advantage I can't say.
– curiousdannii
Oct 3 at 5:18
9
9
"In chess, however, physical performance is meaningless", you might wanna rethink that statement.
– BlueRine S
Oct 3 at 11:57
"In chess, however, physical performance is meaningless", you might wanna rethink that statement.
– BlueRine S
Oct 3 at 11:57
2
2
@Cloud At most of the software companies I've worked at, the answer there is "0". Research suggests that caffeine has very little actual beneficial effects aside from easing the harmful effects of caffeine withdrawal. The best performers are the ones who never fall into that trap to begin with.
– Mason Wheeler
Oct 3 at 21:37
@Cloud At most of the software companies I've worked at, the answer there is "0". Research suggests that caffeine has very little actual beneficial effects aside from easing the harmful effects of caffeine withdrawal. The best performers are the ones who never fall into that trap to begin with.
– Mason Wheeler
Oct 3 at 21:37
3
3
This is wrong. Caffeine is a well-known cognitive enhancer. Why wouldn't it help people with chess?
– EJoshuaS - Reinstate Monica
Oct 4 at 12:08
This is wrong. Caffeine is a well-known cognitive enhancer. Why wouldn't it help people with chess?
– EJoshuaS - Reinstate Monica
Oct 4 at 12:08
3
3
Heh. I don't need to go to a software company. I work there. Yes, there's a lot of caffeine consumption. There's good code. There's also crappy code. And the amount of caffeine consumption is not significantly related to the amount of both. Another urban legend.
– Arlen
Oct 4 at 20:49
Heh. I don't need to go to a software company. I work there. Yes, there's a lot of caffeine consumption. There's good code. There's also crappy code. And the amount of caffeine consumption is not significantly related to the amount of both. Another urban legend.
– Arlen
Oct 4 at 20:49
|
show 9 more comments
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