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Can a character who casts Shapechange and turns into a spellcaster use innate spellcasting to cast spells with a long casting time?

Can monsters using innate spellcasting have their concentration broken?Does casting a long spell end a maintained Concentration spell?Does casting a long spell end a maintained Concentration spell?Can you cast a spell as a ritual while traveling?When can you counterspell a spell with long casting time?Can you cast Mirror Image twice on successive turns and have 6 duplicates of yourself instead of 3?Can I cast reaction spells like Shield or Counterspell when I'm in the middle of casting a spell with a long casting time and don't stop casting it?When casting a spell with a long casting time, what happens if you don't spend your action on a turn to continue casting?Does the Shapechange spell allow one to use Innate Spellcasting of the creature they turned into?Can you cast bonus action and reaction spells while already casting a spell with a casting time longer than a turn?What happens if you end concentration on a spell with a long casting time without your concentration “breaking”?

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5

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Can a character who casts Shapechange and turns into a spellcaster use innate spellcasting to cast spells with a long casting time?

A specific example is when a druid casts Shapechange to turn into a Planetar that has innate spellcasting. They then cast the Commune spell that Planetars can cast 1/day. The problem is, Commune has a casting time of 1 minute, and Shapechange is a concentration spell.

On pg. 202 of the PHB under "Longer Casting Times", it states:

When you cast a spell with a casting time longer than a single action or reaction, you must spend your action each turn casting the spell, and you must maintain your concentration while you do so.

I'm wondering if the spellcasting being innate changes that in some way.

dnd-5e monsters concentration spellcasting

share|improve this question

edited Aug 9 at 20:15

V2Blast♦

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asked Aug 9 at 15:16

RallozarXRallozarX

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$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Related: Can monsters using innate spellcasting have their concentration broken?
  $endgroup$
  – Sdjz
  Aug 9 at 15:18
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment
 | 

5

$begingroup$

Can a character who casts Shapechange and turns into a spellcaster use innate spellcasting to cast spells with a long casting time?

A specific example is when a druid casts Shapechange to turn into a Planetar that has innate spellcasting. They then cast the Commune spell that Planetars can cast 1/day. The problem is, Commune has a casting time of 1 minute, and Shapechange is a concentration spell.

On pg. 202 of the PHB under "Longer Casting Times", it states:

When you cast a spell with a casting time longer than a single action or reaction, you must spend your action each turn casting the spell, and you must maintain your concentration while you do so.

I'm wondering if the spellcasting being innate changes that in some way.

dnd-5e monsters concentration spellcasting

share|improve this question

edited Aug 9 at 20:15

V2Blast♦

35.4k55 gold badges133133 silver badges225225 bronze badges

asked Aug 9 at 15:16

RallozarXRallozarX

1,75355 silver badges1919 bronze badges

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Related: Can monsters using innate spellcasting have their concentration broken?
  $endgroup$
  – Sdjz
  Aug 9 at 15:18
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment
 | 

$begingroup$

Can a character who casts Shapechange and turns into a spellcaster use innate spellcasting to cast spells with a long casting time?

A specific example is when a druid casts Shapechange to turn into a Planetar that has innate spellcasting. They then cast the Commune spell that Planetars can cast 1/day. The problem is, Commune has a casting time of 1 minute, and Shapechange is a concentration spell.

On pg. 202 of the PHB under "Longer Casting Times", it states:

When you cast a spell with a casting time longer than a single action or reaction, you must spend your action each turn casting the spell, and you must maintain your concentration while you do so.

I'm wondering if the spellcasting being innate changes that in some way.

dnd-5e monsters concentration spellcasting

share|improve this question

edited Aug 9 at 20:15

V2Blast♦

35.4k55 gold badges133133 silver badges225225 bronze badges

asked Aug 9 at 15:16

RallozarXRallozarX

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$endgroup$

share|improve this question

edited Aug 9 at 20:15

V2Blast♦

35.4k55 gold badges133133 silver badges225225 bronze badges

asked Aug 9 at 15:16

RallozarXRallozarX

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share|improve this question

edited Aug 9 at 20:15

V2Blast♦

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asked Aug 9 at 15:16

RallozarXRallozarX

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edited Aug 9 at 20:15

V2Blast♦

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edited Aug 9 at 20:15

V2Blast♦

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asked Aug 9 at 15:16

RallozarXRallozarX

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asked Aug 9 at 15:16

RallozarXRallozarX

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1 Answer
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16

$begingroup$

Attempting to cast commune will end shapechange

As you noted, shapechange is a concentration spell which means that concentrating on another spell or casting a spell with a long cast time will end it (see also this Q/A).

The Planetar's Innate Spellcasting only says that (emphasis mine):

The planetar's spellcasting ability is Charisma (spell save DC 20). The planetar can innately cast the following spells, requiring no material components:

So the only special property of the Planetar's Innate spells is that they require no material components. All other aspects of the spellcasting function as normal, as per the rules on innate spellcasting, including the concentration requirement for casting a spell with a long cast time that you've already quoted.

Therefore, casting commune as a Planetar requires concentration for the duration, which means that attempting to do so would end shapechange as soon as you started casting commune.

share|improve this answer

edited Aug 9 at 20:16

V2Blast♦

35.4k55 gold badges133133 silver badges225225 bronze badges

answered Aug 9 at 15:28

SdjzSdjz

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$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  So the answer is "Yes"?
  $endgroup$
  – ikegami
  Aug 10 at 0:55
  

  
  
  
  


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  @ikegami One could argue either way. The part that's obvious, as written: shapechange into a planetar, start casting commune, which causes shapechange to end because you're now concentrating on commune. What's unclear is whether you're able to complete the casting of commune given that you lose the ability to cast it the instant shapechange ends, because you're no longer a planetar. Personally, I'd probably say no, but really it could go either way. If the player was trying to use it to do something cool, I'd probably allow it; if they were just trying to game the system, then no.
  $endgroup$
  – anaximander
  Aug 10 at 8:53
  

  
  
  
  


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  @anaximander I think going by RAW, the answer is No, because you can't spend actions casting a spell you don't know, and you don't know it any more after the first action cancelled the shapechange and thus innate spell.
  $endgroup$
  – AlienAtSystem
  Aug 10 at 10:27
  

  
  
  
  


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  @AlienAtSystem I would agree, by a strict reading of the rules, but as a DM I'd give some leeway for things that are cool and move the plot along. Some sort of Flowers for Algernon moment as the character feels the knowledge fading from their mind but keeps pouring magic into it, feeling that having started, the spell is continuing on its own without direction, just needing them to feed it energy... There could be an argument for making an Arcana check to not lose the spell, or something, but I'd decide in the moment.
  $endgroup$
  – anaximander
  Aug 10 at 21:11
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment
 | 

Your Answer

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16

$begingroup$

Attempting to cast commune will end shapechange

As you noted, shapechange is a concentration spell which means that concentrating on another spell or casting a spell with a long cast time will end it (see also this Q/A).

The Planetar's Innate Spellcasting only says that (emphasis mine):

The planetar's spellcasting ability is Charisma (spell save DC 20). The planetar can innately cast the following spells, requiring no material components:

So the only special property of the Planetar's Innate spells is that they require no material components. All other aspects of the spellcasting function as normal, as per the rules on innate spellcasting, including the concentration requirement for casting a spell with a long cast time that you've already quoted.

Therefore, casting commune as a Planetar requires concentration for the duration, which means that attempting to do so would end shapechange as soon as you started casting commune.

share|improve this answer

edited Aug 9 at 20:16

V2Blast♦

35.4k55 gold badges133133 silver badges225225 bronze badges

answered Aug 9 at 15:28

SdjzSdjz

25.7k77 gold badges120120 silver badges183183 bronze badges

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  So the answer is "Yes"?
  $endgroup$
  – ikegami
  Aug 10 at 0:55
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @ikegami One could argue either way. The part that's obvious, as written: shapechange into a planetar, start casting commune, which causes shapechange to end because you're now concentrating on commune. What's unclear is whether you're able to complete the casting of commune given that you lose the ability to cast it the instant shapechange ends, because you're no longer a planetar. Personally, I'd probably say no, but really it could go either way. If the player was trying to use it to do something cool, I'd probably allow it; if they were just trying to game the system, then no.
  $endgroup$
  – anaximander
  Aug 10 at 8:53
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @anaximander I think going by RAW, the answer is No, because you can't spend actions casting a spell you don't know, and you don't know it any more after the first action cancelled the shapechange and thus innate spell.
  $endgroup$
  – AlienAtSystem
  Aug 10 at 10:27
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @AlienAtSystem I would agree, by a strict reading of the rules, but as a DM I'd give some leeway for things that are cool and move the plot along. Some sort of Flowers for Algernon moment as the character feels the knowledge fading from their mind but keeps pouring magic into it, feeling that having started, the spell is continuing on its own without direction, just needing them to feed it energy... There could be an argument for making an Arcana check to not lose the spell, or something, but I'd decide in the moment.
  $endgroup$
  – anaximander
  Aug 10 at 21:11
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment
 | 

16

$begingroup$

Attempting to cast commune will end shapechange

As you noted, shapechange is a concentration spell which means that concentrating on another spell or casting a spell with a long cast time will end it (see also this Q/A).

The Planetar's Innate Spellcasting only says that (emphasis mine):

The planetar's spellcasting ability is Charisma (spell save DC 20). The planetar can innately cast the following spells, requiring no material components:

So the only special property of the Planetar's Innate spells is that they require no material components. All other aspects of the spellcasting function as normal, as per the rules on innate spellcasting, including the concentration requirement for casting a spell with a long cast time that you've already quoted.

Therefore, casting commune as a Planetar requires concentration for the duration, which means that attempting to do so would end shapechange as soon as you started casting commune.

share|improve this answer

edited Aug 9 at 20:16

V2Blast♦

35.4k55 gold badges133133 silver badges225225 bronze badges

answered Aug 9 at 15:28

SdjzSdjz

25.7k77 gold badges120120 silver badges183183 bronze badges

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  So the answer is "Yes"?
  $endgroup$
  – ikegami
  Aug 10 at 0:55
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @ikegami One could argue either way. The part that's obvious, as written: shapechange into a planetar, start casting commune, which causes shapechange to end because you're now concentrating on commune. What's unclear is whether you're able to complete the casting of commune given that you lose the ability to cast it the instant shapechange ends, because you're no longer a planetar. Personally, I'd probably say no, but really it could go either way. If the player was trying to use it to do something cool, I'd probably allow it; if they were just trying to game the system, then no.
  $endgroup$
  – anaximander
  Aug 10 at 8:53
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @anaximander I think going by RAW, the answer is No, because you can't spend actions casting a spell you don't know, and you don't know it any more after the first action cancelled the shapechange and thus innate spell.
  $endgroup$
  – AlienAtSystem
  Aug 10 at 10:27
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @AlienAtSystem I would agree, by a strict reading of the rules, but as a DM I'd give some leeway for things that are cool and move the plot along. Some sort of Flowers for Algernon moment as the character feels the knowledge fading from their mind but keeps pouring magic into it, feeling that having started, the spell is continuing on its own without direction, just needing them to feed it energy... There could be an argument for making an Arcana check to not lose the spell, or something, but I'd decide in the moment.
  $endgroup$
  – anaximander
  Aug 10 at 21:11
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment
 | 

$begingroup$

Attempting to cast commune will end shapechange

As you noted, shapechange is a concentration spell which means that concentrating on another spell or casting a spell with a long cast time will end it (see also this Q/A).

The Planetar's Innate Spellcasting only says that (emphasis mine):

The planetar's spellcasting ability is Charisma (spell save DC 20). The planetar can innately cast the following spells, requiring no material components:

So the only special property of the Planetar's Innate spells is that they require no material components. All other aspects of the spellcasting function as normal, as per the rules on innate spellcasting, including the concentration requirement for casting a spell with a long cast time that you've already quoted.

Therefore, casting commune as a Planetar requires concentration for the duration, which means that attempting to do so would end shapechange as soon as you started casting commune.

share|improve this answer

edited Aug 9 at 20:16

V2Blast♦

35.4k55 gold badges133133 silver badges225225 bronze badges

answered Aug 9 at 15:28

SdjzSdjz

25.7k77 gold badges120120 silver badges183183 bronze badges

$endgroup$

share|improve this answer

edited Aug 9 at 20:16

V2Blast♦

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answered Aug 9 at 15:28

SdjzSdjz

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edited Aug 9 at 20:16

V2Blast♦

35.4k55 gold badges133133 silver badges225225 bronze badges

edited Aug 9 at 20:16

V2Blast♦

35.4k55 gold badges133133 silver badges225225 bronze badges

answered Aug 9 at 15:28

SdjzSdjz

25.7k77 gold badges120120 silver badges183183 bronze badges

answered Aug 9 at 15:28

SdjzSdjz

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