Direct Experience of MeditationPeculiar Experience of Shamatha / VipassanaMomentum Within MeditationMind full MeditationWhat are the attitudes of the schools to the experience of physical pain during sitting meditation?Odd Experience in MeditationThe Experience of What ArisesIdeal Experience in BuddhismMost efficient (timewise) meditation techniques to experience joy and bliss?Confusion Over Intense Experience During MeditationValidity of Meditation Experience
Why were the Night's Watch required to be celibate?
Different PCB color ( is it different material? )
Humans meet a distant alien species. How do they standardize? - Units of Measure
What is the right way to float a home lab?
What is a simple, physical situation where complex numbers emerge naturally?
If Sweden was to magically float away, at what altitude would it be visible from the southern hemisphere?
Working in the USA for living expenses only; allowed on VWP?
Is the world in Game of Thrones spherical or flat?
Can you please explain this joke: "I'm going bananas is what I tell my bananas before I leave the house"?
What is the most important characteristic of New Weird as a genre?
PhD student with mental health issues and bad performance
How crucial is a waifu game storyline?
What caused the tendency for conservatives to not support climate change regulations?
How do I get a cleat that's stuck in a pedal, detached from the shoe, out?
Slide Partition from Rowstore to Columnstore
What should I do about a religious player who refuses to accept the existence of multiple gods in D&D?
What if you don't bring your credit card or debit for incidentals?
Yum failing check-update
Homophone fills the blanks
Explain Ant-Man's "not it" scene from Avengers: Endgame
Opposite of "Squeaky wheel gets the grease"
Is there a rule that prohibits us from using 2 possessives in a row?
Strange math syntax in old basic listing
Is American Express widely accepted in France?
Direct Experience of Meditation
Peculiar Experience of Shamatha / VipassanaMomentum Within MeditationMind full MeditationWhat are the attitudes of the schools to the experience of physical pain during sitting meditation?Odd Experience in MeditationThe Experience of What ArisesIdeal Experience in BuddhismMost efficient (timewise) meditation techniques to experience joy and bliss?Confusion Over Intense Experience During MeditationValidity of Meditation Experience
This morning I read many posts on this site. I felt like topics on Buddhist doctrine were somewhat clear to me, but those on meditation seemed complex, difficult to me.
I wondered: Does meditation practice increase knowledge about meditation? Is this what is meant by direct experience?
I feel this may seem as a naive question; I'm mainly wondering how something experienced (i.e. meditation) might affect cognition / knowledge about the topic of meditation.
For example, I'm unsure whether a person hammering nails all day would necessarily understand their task conceptually. Does meditation necessarily give one conceptual knowledge of meditation?
meditation
add a comment |
This morning I read many posts on this site. I felt like topics on Buddhist doctrine were somewhat clear to me, but those on meditation seemed complex, difficult to me.
I wondered: Does meditation practice increase knowledge about meditation? Is this what is meant by direct experience?
I feel this may seem as a naive question; I'm mainly wondering how something experienced (i.e. meditation) might affect cognition / knowledge about the topic of meditation.
For example, I'm unsure whether a person hammering nails all day would necessarily understand their task conceptually. Does meditation necessarily give one conceptual knowledge of meditation?
meditation
add a comment |
This morning I read many posts on this site. I felt like topics on Buddhist doctrine were somewhat clear to me, but those on meditation seemed complex, difficult to me.
I wondered: Does meditation practice increase knowledge about meditation? Is this what is meant by direct experience?
I feel this may seem as a naive question; I'm mainly wondering how something experienced (i.e. meditation) might affect cognition / knowledge about the topic of meditation.
For example, I'm unsure whether a person hammering nails all day would necessarily understand their task conceptually. Does meditation necessarily give one conceptual knowledge of meditation?
meditation
This morning I read many posts on this site. I felt like topics on Buddhist doctrine were somewhat clear to me, but those on meditation seemed complex, difficult to me.
I wondered: Does meditation practice increase knowledge about meditation? Is this what is meant by direct experience?
I feel this may seem as a naive question; I'm mainly wondering how something experienced (i.e. meditation) might affect cognition / knowledge about the topic of meditation.
For example, I'm unsure whether a person hammering nails all day would necessarily understand their task conceptually. Does meditation necessarily give one conceptual knowledge of meditation?
meditation
meditation
asked Apr 14 at 13:49
EggmanEggman
2,073516
2,073516
add a comment |
add a comment |
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
One possible answer is that meditation relies both on the theoretical understanding on what's going on, but also the direct experience. They are mutually dependent as far as i can see.
A mere theoretical understanding of meditation will not take us very far in the progress, just like meditation without a theoretical description of the phenomena involved probably won't take us far either.
add a comment |
Simple analogy:
The experience of watching someone drive (a car) for 1000 years can never compare to actually driving by yourself for 1 hour.
I felt that @Erik had a slightly better answer in that I, also, feel both are required. While the above is true, I felt that trying to drive without watching/learning about driving first could be almost equally fruitless in its results.
– GVCOJims
Apr 18 at 22:34
Respect your view. However, the best way to start learning how to drive, still is to practically drive slowly and carefully, better with an instructor next to you of course. It's just not something to learn 'theoretically', conceptually, or 'tabletop'. Same goes for meditation. Cheers!
– Krizalid_13190
Apr 23 at 2:34
I respect your view as well. However, I think the 'best' methods for a person may depend on the type of individual they are. Using your analogy, if you are an experiential / intuitive type, getting behind the wheel would be best. You would not care about the physics of how brakes work. Stepping on the petal would be enough for you to learn. But for me, an analytic, often I wish to understand theory before experience. For people like me, we need both. Hence my comment of "both are required" for complete and balanced learning. Complicated individual differences give different 'best's. Regards.
– GVCOJims
Apr 24 at 14:42
add a comment |
Going canonical: Meditation involves samadhi (tranquil absorption) and sati (mindful awareness).
When you investigate a phenomena (breath for example) with this state of mind, depending upon the strength of your mindfulness you will see aspects of the working of the mind itself.
Almost like seeing through the corner of your mind, you see how the mind itself works. And by virtue of seeing that you might see how reality is- this could come from different angles (impermanence, fabricated nature, dependent arising)- our mind releases a little bit "ahh this is silly, why am I so worried about this!".
But those are names we use to convey our experiences. No amount of scholarly dissection of those names will help our mind release it. Only direct, real time, seeing would. Meditation develops the skill and arena for such insights.
This seeing the working of the mind does not need a conceptual framework. But certain conceptual framework (the optimal way to nail a hammer) will help you hammer it deeper and better. But it relies on your experiential understanding of hammering a nail itself. The eight fold path is such a conceptual framework which points us in the general direction of these realizations.
add a comment |
Its like this.Say you face a problem with the direct experience of a certain feeling ,thus you decided to formulate a new meditation concept where you contemplate that feeling.
Direct experience is to investigate the true nature of reality its subjective quality
.In hammering nails one will experience nailing
Conceptual knowledge comes about as a result of problems faced when having a direct experience.
If the nail gets bent then one decides to hammer a bit slowly next time.
A quibble. I would question whether the phrase 'its subjective quality' is correct here. It might suggest Reality is an object with a subjective aspect. .
– PeterJ
Apr 16 at 13:22
Its quality is experienced subjectively is what I meant.
– Omar Boshra
Apr 16 at 13:32
This is what I thought you meant. I would suggest that 'Subjective qualities' are rather mundane things and meditation takes us beyond them. Indeed. 'subjective quialites' are exactly what we are trying to transcend. But I see this may be just matter of terminology. ,.
– PeterJ
Apr 16 at 13:38
I agree regarding transcendence ,but its merely the result.The message is that there is nothing...absolutely nothing but the quality and that is the end of suffering.
– Omar Boshra
Apr 16 at 13:58
1
Yes. its no problem .Our disagreement seems to be of a high caliber it has a sophistication ,knowing this one is not bothered and simply learns from the other :).
– Omar Boshra
Apr 16 at 14:13
|
show 2 more comments
The question is a little muddled for a clear answer. Or, at least, that's my excuse.
Direct experience is unmediated so is non-sensory. Practice increases knowledge of meditation if all goes well but meditation takes us beyond experience and the experience-experiencer-experienced distinctions so direct experience is not the end of the story. As the Upanishds ask, 'Who is there to experience the experiencer?'
Meditation has no topic as such, other than finding out who you are. In the end this not about experience but about being.
This would be why the claim of Jesus and Al-Hallaj is not 'I know the truth' but 'I am Truth'. A relevant comment from Imam Ali, the first Shia Imam, may be, 'Why dost the reckon thyself a puny being when within thee the universe is enfolded.' Meditation takes us beyond the experiences of puny beings, direct or otherwise.
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "565"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fbuddhism.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f31905%2fdirect-experience-of-meditation%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
One possible answer is that meditation relies both on the theoretical understanding on what's going on, but also the direct experience. They are mutually dependent as far as i can see.
A mere theoretical understanding of meditation will not take us very far in the progress, just like meditation without a theoretical description of the phenomena involved probably won't take us far either.
add a comment |
One possible answer is that meditation relies both on the theoretical understanding on what's going on, but also the direct experience. They are mutually dependent as far as i can see.
A mere theoretical understanding of meditation will not take us very far in the progress, just like meditation without a theoretical description of the phenomena involved probably won't take us far either.
add a comment |
One possible answer is that meditation relies both on the theoretical understanding on what's going on, but also the direct experience. They are mutually dependent as far as i can see.
A mere theoretical understanding of meditation will not take us very far in the progress, just like meditation without a theoretical description of the phenomena involved probably won't take us far either.
One possible answer is that meditation relies both on the theoretical understanding on what's going on, but also the direct experience. They are mutually dependent as far as i can see.
A mere theoretical understanding of meditation will not take us very far in the progress, just like meditation without a theoretical description of the phenomena involved probably won't take us far either.
answered Apr 14 at 14:10
ErikErik
30928
30928
add a comment |
add a comment |
Simple analogy:
The experience of watching someone drive (a car) for 1000 years can never compare to actually driving by yourself for 1 hour.
I felt that @Erik had a slightly better answer in that I, also, feel both are required. While the above is true, I felt that trying to drive without watching/learning about driving first could be almost equally fruitless in its results.
– GVCOJims
Apr 18 at 22:34
Respect your view. However, the best way to start learning how to drive, still is to practically drive slowly and carefully, better with an instructor next to you of course. It's just not something to learn 'theoretically', conceptually, or 'tabletop'. Same goes for meditation. Cheers!
– Krizalid_13190
Apr 23 at 2:34
I respect your view as well. However, I think the 'best' methods for a person may depend on the type of individual they are. Using your analogy, if you are an experiential / intuitive type, getting behind the wheel would be best. You would not care about the physics of how brakes work. Stepping on the petal would be enough for you to learn. But for me, an analytic, often I wish to understand theory before experience. For people like me, we need both. Hence my comment of "both are required" for complete and balanced learning. Complicated individual differences give different 'best's. Regards.
– GVCOJims
Apr 24 at 14:42
add a comment |
Simple analogy:
The experience of watching someone drive (a car) for 1000 years can never compare to actually driving by yourself for 1 hour.
I felt that @Erik had a slightly better answer in that I, also, feel both are required. While the above is true, I felt that trying to drive without watching/learning about driving first could be almost equally fruitless in its results.
– GVCOJims
Apr 18 at 22:34
Respect your view. However, the best way to start learning how to drive, still is to practically drive slowly and carefully, better with an instructor next to you of course. It's just not something to learn 'theoretically', conceptually, or 'tabletop'. Same goes for meditation. Cheers!
– Krizalid_13190
Apr 23 at 2:34
I respect your view as well. However, I think the 'best' methods for a person may depend on the type of individual they are. Using your analogy, if you are an experiential / intuitive type, getting behind the wheel would be best. You would not care about the physics of how brakes work. Stepping on the petal would be enough for you to learn. But for me, an analytic, often I wish to understand theory before experience. For people like me, we need both. Hence my comment of "both are required" for complete and balanced learning. Complicated individual differences give different 'best's. Regards.
– GVCOJims
Apr 24 at 14:42
add a comment |
Simple analogy:
The experience of watching someone drive (a car) for 1000 years can never compare to actually driving by yourself for 1 hour.
Simple analogy:
The experience of watching someone drive (a car) for 1000 years can never compare to actually driving by yourself for 1 hour.
answered Apr 15 at 2:04
Krizalid_13190Krizalid_13190
64417
64417
I felt that @Erik had a slightly better answer in that I, also, feel both are required. While the above is true, I felt that trying to drive without watching/learning about driving first could be almost equally fruitless in its results.
– GVCOJims
Apr 18 at 22:34
Respect your view. However, the best way to start learning how to drive, still is to practically drive slowly and carefully, better with an instructor next to you of course. It's just not something to learn 'theoretically', conceptually, or 'tabletop'. Same goes for meditation. Cheers!
– Krizalid_13190
Apr 23 at 2:34
I respect your view as well. However, I think the 'best' methods for a person may depend on the type of individual they are. Using your analogy, if you are an experiential / intuitive type, getting behind the wheel would be best. You would not care about the physics of how brakes work. Stepping on the petal would be enough for you to learn. But for me, an analytic, often I wish to understand theory before experience. For people like me, we need both. Hence my comment of "both are required" for complete and balanced learning. Complicated individual differences give different 'best's. Regards.
– GVCOJims
Apr 24 at 14:42
add a comment |
I felt that @Erik had a slightly better answer in that I, also, feel both are required. While the above is true, I felt that trying to drive without watching/learning about driving first could be almost equally fruitless in its results.
– GVCOJims
Apr 18 at 22:34
Respect your view. However, the best way to start learning how to drive, still is to practically drive slowly and carefully, better with an instructor next to you of course. It's just not something to learn 'theoretically', conceptually, or 'tabletop'. Same goes for meditation. Cheers!
– Krizalid_13190
Apr 23 at 2:34
I respect your view as well. However, I think the 'best' methods for a person may depend on the type of individual they are. Using your analogy, if you are an experiential / intuitive type, getting behind the wheel would be best. You would not care about the physics of how brakes work. Stepping on the petal would be enough for you to learn. But for me, an analytic, often I wish to understand theory before experience. For people like me, we need both. Hence my comment of "both are required" for complete and balanced learning. Complicated individual differences give different 'best's. Regards.
– GVCOJims
Apr 24 at 14:42
I felt that @Erik had a slightly better answer in that I, also, feel both are required. While the above is true, I felt that trying to drive without watching/learning about driving first could be almost equally fruitless in its results.
– GVCOJims
Apr 18 at 22:34
I felt that @Erik had a slightly better answer in that I, also, feel both are required. While the above is true, I felt that trying to drive without watching/learning about driving first could be almost equally fruitless in its results.
– GVCOJims
Apr 18 at 22:34
Respect your view. However, the best way to start learning how to drive, still is to practically drive slowly and carefully, better with an instructor next to you of course. It's just not something to learn 'theoretically', conceptually, or 'tabletop'. Same goes for meditation. Cheers!
– Krizalid_13190
Apr 23 at 2:34
Respect your view. However, the best way to start learning how to drive, still is to practically drive slowly and carefully, better with an instructor next to you of course. It's just not something to learn 'theoretically', conceptually, or 'tabletop'. Same goes for meditation. Cheers!
– Krizalid_13190
Apr 23 at 2:34
I respect your view as well. However, I think the 'best' methods for a person may depend on the type of individual they are. Using your analogy, if you are an experiential / intuitive type, getting behind the wheel would be best. You would not care about the physics of how brakes work. Stepping on the petal would be enough for you to learn. But for me, an analytic, often I wish to understand theory before experience. For people like me, we need both. Hence my comment of "both are required" for complete and balanced learning. Complicated individual differences give different 'best's. Regards.
– GVCOJims
Apr 24 at 14:42
I respect your view as well. However, I think the 'best' methods for a person may depend on the type of individual they are. Using your analogy, if you are an experiential / intuitive type, getting behind the wheel would be best. You would not care about the physics of how brakes work. Stepping on the petal would be enough for you to learn. But for me, an analytic, often I wish to understand theory before experience. For people like me, we need both. Hence my comment of "both are required" for complete and balanced learning. Complicated individual differences give different 'best's. Regards.
– GVCOJims
Apr 24 at 14:42
add a comment |
Going canonical: Meditation involves samadhi (tranquil absorption) and sati (mindful awareness).
When you investigate a phenomena (breath for example) with this state of mind, depending upon the strength of your mindfulness you will see aspects of the working of the mind itself.
Almost like seeing through the corner of your mind, you see how the mind itself works. And by virtue of seeing that you might see how reality is- this could come from different angles (impermanence, fabricated nature, dependent arising)- our mind releases a little bit "ahh this is silly, why am I so worried about this!".
But those are names we use to convey our experiences. No amount of scholarly dissection of those names will help our mind release it. Only direct, real time, seeing would. Meditation develops the skill and arena for such insights.
This seeing the working of the mind does not need a conceptual framework. But certain conceptual framework (the optimal way to nail a hammer) will help you hammer it deeper and better. But it relies on your experiential understanding of hammering a nail itself. The eight fold path is such a conceptual framework which points us in the general direction of these realizations.
add a comment |
Going canonical: Meditation involves samadhi (tranquil absorption) and sati (mindful awareness).
When you investigate a phenomena (breath for example) with this state of mind, depending upon the strength of your mindfulness you will see aspects of the working of the mind itself.
Almost like seeing through the corner of your mind, you see how the mind itself works. And by virtue of seeing that you might see how reality is- this could come from different angles (impermanence, fabricated nature, dependent arising)- our mind releases a little bit "ahh this is silly, why am I so worried about this!".
But those are names we use to convey our experiences. No amount of scholarly dissection of those names will help our mind release it. Only direct, real time, seeing would. Meditation develops the skill and arena for such insights.
This seeing the working of the mind does not need a conceptual framework. But certain conceptual framework (the optimal way to nail a hammer) will help you hammer it deeper and better. But it relies on your experiential understanding of hammering a nail itself. The eight fold path is such a conceptual framework which points us in the general direction of these realizations.
add a comment |
Going canonical: Meditation involves samadhi (tranquil absorption) and sati (mindful awareness).
When you investigate a phenomena (breath for example) with this state of mind, depending upon the strength of your mindfulness you will see aspects of the working of the mind itself.
Almost like seeing through the corner of your mind, you see how the mind itself works. And by virtue of seeing that you might see how reality is- this could come from different angles (impermanence, fabricated nature, dependent arising)- our mind releases a little bit "ahh this is silly, why am I so worried about this!".
But those are names we use to convey our experiences. No amount of scholarly dissection of those names will help our mind release it. Only direct, real time, seeing would. Meditation develops the skill and arena for such insights.
This seeing the working of the mind does not need a conceptual framework. But certain conceptual framework (the optimal way to nail a hammer) will help you hammer it deeper and better. But it relies on your experiential understanding of hammering a nail itself. The eight fold path is such a conceptual framework which points us in the general direction of these realizations.
Going canonical: Meditation involves samadhi (tranquil absorption) and sati (mindful awareness).
When you investigate a phenomena (breath for example) with this state of mind, depending upon the strength of your mindfulness you will see aspects of the working of the mind itself.
Almost like seeing through the corner of your mind, you see how the mind itself works. And by virtue of seeing that you might see how reality is- this could come from different angles (impermanence, fabricated nature, dependent arising)- our mind releases a little bit "ahh this is silly, why am I so worried about this!".
But those are names we use to convey our experiences. No amount of scholarly dissection of those names will help our mind release it. Only direct, real time, seeing would. Meditation develops the skill and arena for such insights.
This seeing the working of the mind does not need a conceptual framework. But certain conceptual framework (the optimal way to nail a hammer) will help you hammer it deeper and better. But it relies on your experiential understanding of hammering a nail itself. The eight fold path is such a conceptual framework which points us in the general direction of these realizations.
answered Apr 14 at 16:39
NVARNVAR
992
992
add a comment |
add a comment |
Its like this.Say you face a problem with the direct experience of a certain feeling ,thus you decided to formulate a new meditation concept where you contemplate that feeling.
Direct experience is to investigate the true nature of reality its subjective quality
.In hammering nails one will experience nailing
Conceptual knowledge comes about as a result of problems faced when having a direct experience.
If the nail gets bent then one decides to hammer a bit slowly next time.
A quibble. I would question whether the phrase 'its subjective quality' is correct here. It might suggest Reality is an object with a subjective aspect. .
– PeterJ
Apr 16 at 13:22
Its quality is experienced subjectively is what I meant.
– Omar Boshra
Apr 16 at 13:32
This is what I thought you meant. I would suggest that 'Subjective qualities' are rather mundane things and meditation takes us beyond them. Indeed. 'subjective quialites' are exactly what we are trying to transcend. But I see this may be just matter of terminology. ,.
– PeterJ
Apr 16 at 13:38
I agree regarding transcendence ,but its merely the result.The message is that there is nothing...absolutely nothing but the quality and that is the end of suffering.
– Omar Boshra
Apr 16 at 13:58
1
Yes. its no problem .Our disagreement seems to be of a high caliber it has a sophistication ,knowing this one is not bothered and simply learns from the other :).
– Omar Boshra
Apr 16 at 14:13
|
show 2 more comments
Its like this.Say you face a problem with the direct experience of a certain feeling ,thus you decided to formulate a new meditation concept where you contemplate that feeling.
Direct experience is to investigate the true nature of reality its subjective quality
.In hammering nails one will experience nailing
Conceptual knowledge comes about as a result of problems faced when having a direct experience.
If the nail gets bent then one decides to hammer a bit slowly next time.
A quibble. I would question whether the phrase 'its subjective quality' is correct here. It might suggest Reality is an object with a subjective aspect. .
– PeterJ
Apr 16 at 13:22
Its quality is experienced subjectively is what I meant.
– Omar Boshra
Apr 16 at 13:32
This is what I thought you meant. I would suggest that 'Subjective qualities' are rather mundane things and meditation takes us beyond them. Indeed. 'subjective quialites' are exactly what we are trying to transcend. But I see this may be just matter of terminology. ,.
– PeterJ
Apr 16 at 13:38
I agree regarding transcendence ,but its merely the result.The message is that there is nothing...absolutely nothing but the quality and that is the end of suffering.
– Omar Boshra
Apr 16 at 13:58
1
Yes. its no problem .Our disagreement seems to be of a high caliber it has a sophistication ,knowing this one is not bothered and simply learns from the other :).
– Omar Boshra
Apr 16 at 14:13
|
show 2 more comments
Its like this.Say you face a problem with the direct experience of a certain feeling ,thus you decided to formulate a new meditation concept where you contemplate that feeling.
Direct experience is to investigate the true nature of reality its subjective quality
.In hammering nails one will experience nailing
Conceptual knowledge comes about as a result of problems faced when having a direct experience.
If the nail gets bent then one decides to hammer a bit slowly next time.
Its like this.Say you face a problem with the direct experience of a certain feeling ,thus you decided to formulate a new meditation concept where you contemplate that feeling.
Direct experience is to investigate the true nature of reality its subjective quality
.In hammering nails one will experience nailing
Conceptual knowledge comes about as a result of problems faced when having a direct experience.
If the nail gets bent then one decides to hammer a bit slowly next time.
answered Apr 14 at 14:38
Omar BoshraOmar Boshra
17310
17310
A quibble. I would question whether the phrase 'its subjective quality' is correct here. It might suggest Reality is an object with a subjective aspect. .
– PeterJ
Apr 16 at 13:22
Its quality is experienced subjectively is what I meant.
– Omar Boshra
Apr 16 at 13:32
This is what I thought you meant. I would suggest that 'Subjective qualities' are rather mundane things and meditation takes us beyond them. Indeed. 'subjective quialites' are exactly what we are trying to transcend. But I see this may be just matter of terminology. ,.
– PeterJ
Apr 16 at 13:38
I agree regarding transcendence ,but its merely the result.The message is that there is nothing...absolutely nothing but the quality and that is the end of suffering.
– Omar Boshra
Apr 16 at 13:58
1
Yes. its no problem .Our disagreement seems to be of a high caliber it has a sophistication ,knowing this one is not bothered and simply learns from the other :).
– Omar Boshra
Apr 16 at 14:13
|
show 2 more comments
A quibble. I would question whether the phrase 'its subjective quality' is correct here. It might suggest Reality is an object with a subjective aspect. .
– PeterJ
Apr 16 at 13:22
Its quality is experienced subjectively is what I meant.
– Omar Boshra
Apr 16 at 13:32
This is what I thought you meant. I would suggest that 'Subjective qualities' are rather mundane things and meditation takes us beyond them. Indeed. 'subjective quialites' are exactly what we are trying to transcend. But I see this may be just matter of terminology. ,.
– PeterJ
Apr 16 at 13:38
I agree regarding transcendence ,but its merely the result.The message is that there is nothing...absolutely nothing but the quality and that is the end of suffering.
– Omar Boshra
Apr 16 at 13:58
1
Yes. its no problem .Our disagreement seems to be of a high caliber it has a sophistication ,knowing this one is not bothered and simply learns from the other :).
– Omar Boshra
Apr 16 at 14:13
A quibble. I would question whether the phrase 'its subjective quality' is correct here. It might suggest Reality is an object with a subjective aspect. .
– PeterJ
Apr 16 at 13:22
A quibble. I would question whether the phrase 'its subjective quality' is correct here. It might suggest Reality is an object with a subjective aspect. .
– PeterJ
Apr 16 at 13:22
Its quality is experienced subjectively is what I meant.
– Omar Boshra
Apr 16 at 13:32
Its quality is experienced subjectively is what I meant.
– Omar Boshra
Apr 16 at 13:32
This is what I thought you meant. I would suggest that 'Subjective qualities' are rather mundane things and meditation takes us beyond them. Indeed. 'subjective quialites' are exactly what we are trying to transcend. But I see this may be just matter of terminology. ,.
– PeterJ
Apr 16 at 13:38
This is what I thought you meant. I would suggest that 'Subjective qualities' are rather mundane things and meditation takes us beyond them. Indeed. 'subjective quialites' are exactly what we are trying to transcend. But I see this may be just matter of terminology. ,.
– PeterJ
Apr 16 at 13:38
I agree regarding transcendence ,but its merely the result.The message is that there is nothing...absolutely nothing but the quality and that is the end of suffering.
– Omar Boshra
Apr 16 at 13:58
I agree regarding transcendence ,but its merely the result.The message is that there is nothing...absolutely nothing but the quality and that is the end of suffering.
– Omar Boshra
Apr 16 at 13:58
1
1
Yes. its no problem .Our disagreement seems to be of a high caliber it has a sophistication ,knowing this one is not bothered and simply learns from the other :).
– Omar Boshra
Apr 16 at 14:13
Yes. its no problem .Our disagreement seems to be of a high caliber it has a sophistication ,knowing this one is not bothered and simply learns from the other :).
– Omar Boshra
Apr 16 at 14:13
|
show 2 more comments
The question is a little muddled for a clear answer. Or, at least, that's my excuse.
Direct experience is unmediated so is non-sensory. Practice increases knowledge of meditation if all goes well but meditation takes us beyond experience and the experience-experiencer-experienced distinctions so direct experience is not the end of the story. As the Upanishds ask, 'Who is there to experience the experiencer?'
Meditation has no topic as such, other than finding out who you are. In the end this not about experience but about being.
This would be why the claim of Jesus and Al-Hallaj is not 'I know the truth' but 'I am Truth'. A relevant comment from Imam Ali, the first Shia Imam, may be, 'Why dost the reckon thyself a puny being when within thee the universe is enfolded.' Meditation takes us beyond the experiences of puny beings, direct or otherwise.
add a comment |
The question is a little muddled for a clear answer. Or, at least, that's my excuse.
Direct experience is unmediated so is non-sensory. Practice increases knowledge of meditation if all goes well but meditation takes us beyond experience and the experience-experiencer-experienced distinctions so direct experience is not the end of the story. As the Upanishds ask, 'Who is there to experience the experiencer?'
Meditation has no topic as such, other than finding out who you are. In the end this not about experience but about being.
This would be why the claim of Jesus and Al-Hallaj is not 'I know the truth' but 'I am Truth'. A relevant comment from Imam Ali, the first Shia Imam, may be, 'Why dost the reckon thyself a puny being when within thee the universe is enfolded.' Meditation takes us beyond the experiences of puny beings, direct or otherwise.
add a comment |
The question is a little muddled for a clear answer. Or, at least, that's my excuse.
Direct experience is unmediated so is non-sensory. Practice increases knowledge of meditation if all goes well but meditation takes us beyond experience and the experience-experiencer-experienced distinctions so direct experience is not the end of the story. As the Upanishds ask, 'Who is there to experience the experiencer?'
Meditation has no topic as such, other than finding out who you are. In the end this not about experience but about being.
This would be why the claim of Jesus and Al-Hallaj is not 'I know the truth' but 'I am Truth'. A relevant comment from Imam Ali, the first Shia Imam, may be, 'Why dost the reckon thyself a puny being when within thee the universe is enfolded.' Meditation takes us beyond the experiences of puny beings, direct or otherwise.
The question is a little muddled for a clear answer. Or, at least, that's my excuse.
Direct experience is unmediated so is non-sensory. Practice increases knowledge of meditation if all goes well but meditation takes us beyond experience and the experience-experiencer-experienced distinctions so direct experience is not the end of the story. As the Upanishds ask, 'Who is there to experience the experiencer?'
Meditation has no topic as such, other than finding out who you are. In the end this not about experience but about being.
This would be why the claim of Jesus and Al-Hallaj is not 'I know the truth' but 'I am Truth'. A relevant comment from Imam Ali, the first Shia Imam, may be, 'Why dost the reckon thyself a puny being when within thee the universe is enfolded.' Meditation takes us beyond the experiences of puny beings, direct or otherwise.
answered Apr 16 at 13:49
PeterJPeterJ
76519
76519
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Buddhism Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fbuddhism.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f31905%2fdirect-experience-of-meditation%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown