Is there an inconsistency about Natasha Romanoff's middle name in the MCU?What did Loki mean when he called Natasha (Black Widow) “Drakov's daughter”?Was Hydra behind the events of the Avengers?What's the connection between Community and Captain America?What is the Lemurian Star really doing in Captain America: The Winter Soldier?Who is Stephen Strange in the MCU?Why haven't we seen more of Arnim Zola?Is there an inconsistency regarding Kilgrave's powers' duration?Has Moon Knight been hinted at in the MCU?Is there any precedent for time travel in the MCU?

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Is there an inconsistency about Natasha Romanoff's middle name in the MCU?


What did Loki mean when he called Natasha (Black Widow) “Drakov's daughter”?Was Hydra behind the events of the Avengers?What's the connection between Community and Captain America?What is the Lemurian Star really doing in Captain America: The Winter Soldier?Who is Stephen Strange in the MCU?Why haven't we seen more of Arnim Zola?Is there an inconsistency regarding Kilgrave's powers' duration?Has Moon Knight been hinted at in the MCU?Is there any precedent for time travel in the MCU?






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty
margin-bottom:0;









11


















In Captain America: The Winter Soldier, when Natasha and Captain America meet what's left of Arnim Zola in the bunker at Camp Lehigh, he addresses Natasha as:




Dr. Arnim Zola: Rogers, Steven. Born, 1918. Romanoff, Natalia Alianovna. Born, 1984. [they see an old camera moving above them as it analyzes them]



Natasha Romanoff: It's some kind of a recording.



Dr. Arnim Zola: I am not a recording, Fräulein [...]



Captain America: The Winter Soldier




And in Avengers: Endgame, when Clint and Natasha arrive at Vormir, we see Red Skull address Black Widow as:




Red Skull: Welcome.



[Natasha and Clint draws their weapons]



Red Skull: Natasha, daughter of Ivan. Clint, son of Edith.



Natasha: Who are you? [...]



Avengers: Endgame




As far as I know, Ivan couldn't have been a nickname for Alianovna (e.g., Bob for Robert or Bill for William etc.). And as I found here, Alianovna is not specified to be a female or a male name.



So, is this an inconsistency on the part of the writers of the movies? Or is there any official/unofficial source that tells us why the her middle name was differently mentioned in the two films?



PS: Zola's mind was transferred into a complex computer system and he possessed knowledge that no one knew (as seen in Captain America: The Winter Soldier). Also, Cosmic Red Skull seemed to possess the information about everyone who visited Vormir (in Avengers: Infinity War and Avengers: Endgame as well). So, I assume that both of them knew what they were talking about.










share|improve this question






















  • 5





    Alianovna means "daughter of Alian".

    – Stop Harming Monica
    Sep 11 at 11:40






  • 5





    Her surname already shows that her name doesn't follow a general naming scheme, otherwise her last name would be Romanova or Romanovna; '-off' or 'ov' are typically male versions of surnames.

    – TylerH
    Sep 11 at 18:39






  • 2





    This question confused me because I was not aware of this link between middle names and names of parents (and it also isn't explained in the question). But I suppose if you knew not everyone knows this, you wouldn't have had this question.

    – NotThatGuy
    Sep 11 at 22:02






  • 6





    Do you assume that Clint's middle name is "son of Edith"?

    – Kyle Strand
    Sep 11 at 23:35






  • 3





    @MontyHarder the last name could only be Romanova. Romanovna is a patronymic ("daughter of Roman"); Romanova - a last name ("female descendant of Roman").

    – IMil
    Sep 12 at 0:58

















11


















In Captain America: The Winter Soldier, when Natasha and Captain America meet what's left of Arnim Zola in the bunker at Camp Lehigh, he addresses Natasha as:




Dr. Arnim Zola: Rogers, Steven. Born, 1918. Romanoff, Natalia Alianovna. Born, 1984. [they see an old camera moving above them as it analyzes them]



Natasha Romanoff: It's some kind of a recording.



Dr. Arnim Zola: I am not a recording, Fräulein [...]



Captain America: The Winter Soldier




And in Avengers: Endgame, when Clint and Natasha arrive at Vormir, we see Red Skull address Black Widow as:




Red Skull: Welcome.



[Natasha and Clint draws their weapons]



Red Skull: Natasha, daughter of Ivan. Clint, son of Edith.



Natasha: Who are you? [...]



Avengers: Endgame




As far as I know, Ivan couldn't have been a nickname for Alianovna (e.g., Bob for Robert or Bill for William etc.). And as I found here, Alianovna is not specified to be a female or a male name.



So, is this an inconsistency on the part of the writers of the movies? Or is there any official/unofficial source that tells us why the her middle name was differently mentioned in the two films?



PS: Zola's mind was transferred into a complex computer system and he possessed knowledge that no one knew (as seen in Captain America: The Winter Soldier). Also, Cosmic Red Skull seemed to possess the information about everyone who visited Vormir (in Avengers: Infinity War and Avengers: Endgame as well). So, I assume that both of them knew what they were talking about.










share|improve this question






















  • 5





    Alianovna means "daughter of Alian".

    – Stop Harming Monica
    Sep 11 at 11:40






  • 5





    Her surname already shows that her name doesn't follow a general naming scheme, otherwise her last name would be Romanova or Romanovna; '-off' or 'ov' are typically male versions of surnames.

    – TylerH
    Sep 11 at 18:39






  • 2





    This question confused me because I was not aware of this link between middle names and names of parents (and it also isn't explained in the question). But I suppose if you knew not everyone knows this, you wouldn't have had this question.

    – NotThatGuy
    Sep 11 at 22:02






  • 6





    Do you assume that Clint's middle name is "son of Edith"?

    – Kyle Strand
    Sep 11 at 23:35






  • 3





    @MontyHarder the last name could only be Romanova. Romanovna is a patronymic ("daughter of Roman"); Romanova - a last name ("female descendant of Roman").

    – IMil
    Sep 12 at 0:58













11













11









11


1






In Captain America: The Winter Soldier, when Natasha and Captain America meet what's left of Arnim Zola in the bunker at Camp Lehigh, he addresses Natasha as:




Dr. Arnim Zola: Rogers, Steven. Born, 1918. Romanoff, Natalia Alianovna. Born, 1984. [they see an old camera moving above them as it analyzes them]



Natasha Romanoff: It's some kind of a recording.



Dr. Arnim Zola: I am not a recording, Fräulein [...]



Captain America: The Winter Soldier




And in Avengers: Endgame, when Clint and Natasha arrive at Vormir, we see Red Skull address Black Widow as:




Red Skull: Welcome.



[Natasha and Clint draws their weapons]



Red Skull: Natasha, daughter of Ivan. Clint, son of Edith.



Natasha: Who are you? [...]



Avengers: Endgame




As far as I know, Ivan couldn't have been a nickname for Alianovna (e.g., Bob for Robert or Bill for William etc.). And as I found here, Alianovna is not specified to be a female or a male name.



So, is this an inconsistency on the part of the writers of the movies? Or is there any official/unofficial source that tells us why the her middle name was differently mentioned in the two films?



PS: Zola's mind was transferred into a complex computer system and he possessed knowledge that no one knew (as seen in Captain America: The Winter Soldier). Also, Cosmic Red Skull seemed to possess the information about everyone who visited Vormir (in Avengers: Infinity War and Avengers: Endgame as well). So, I assume that both of them knew what they were talking about.










share|improve this question
















In Captain America: The Winter Soldier, when Natasha and Captain America meet what's left of Arnim Zola in the bunker at Camp Lehigh, he addresses Natasha as:




Dr. Arnim Zola: Rogers, Steven. Born, 1918. Romanoff, Natalia Alianovna. Born, 1984. [they see an old camera moving above them as it analyzes them]



Natasha Romanoff: It's some kind of a recording.



Dr. Arnim Zola: I am not a recording, Fräulein [...]



Captain America: The Winter Soldier




And in Avengers: Endgame, when Clint and Natasha arrive at Vormir, we see Red Skull address Black Widow as:




Red Skull: Welcome.



[Natasha and Clint draws their weapons]



Red Skull: Natasha, daughter of Ivan. Clint, son of Edith.



Natasha: Who are you? [...]



Avengers: Endgame




As far as I know, Ivan couldn't have been a nickname for Alianovna (e.g., Bob for Robert or Bill for William etc.). And as I found here, Alianovna is not specified to be a female or a male name.



So, is this an inconsistency on the part of the writers of the movies? Or is there any official/unofficial source that tells us why the her middle name was differently mentioned in the two films?



PS: Zola's mind was transferred into a complex computer system and he possessed knowledge that no one knew (as seen in Captain America: The Winter Soldier). Also, Cosmic Red Skull seemed to possess the information about everyone who visited Vormir (in Avengers: Infinity War and Avengers: Endgame as well). So, I assume that both of them knew what they were talking about.







marvel marvel-cinematic-universe avengers-endgame captain-america-the-winter-soldier black-widow






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Sep 11 at 8:53









TheLethalCarrot

89.6k38 gold badges546 silver badges588 bronze badges




89.6k38 gold badges546 silver badges588 bronze badges










asked Sep 11 at 8:45









ShreedharShreedhar

17.3k5 gold badges59 silver badges135 bronze badges




17.3k5 gold badges59 silver badges135 bronze badges










  • 5





    Alianovna means "daughter of Alian".

    – Stop Harming Monica
    Sep 11 at 11:40






  • 5





    Her surname already shows that her name doesn't follow a general naming scheme, otherwise her last name would be Romanova or Romanovna; '-off' or 'ov' are typically male versions of surnames.

    – TylerH
    Sep 11 at 18:39






  • 2





    This question confused me because I was not aware of this link between middle names and names of parents (and it also isn't explained in the question). But I suppose if you knew not everyone knows this, you wouldn't have had this question.

    – NotThatGuy
    Sep 11 at 22:02






  • 6





    Do you assume that Clint's middle name is "son of Edith"?

    – Kyle Strand
    Sep 11 at 23:35






  • 3





    @MontyHarder the last name could only be Romanova. Romanovna is a patronymic ("daughter of Roman"); Romanova - a last name ("female descendant of Roman").

    – IMil
    Sep 12 at 0:58












  • 5





    Alianovna means "daughter of Alian".

    – Stop Harming Monica
    Sep 11 at 11:40






  • 5





    Her surname already shows that her name doesn't follow a general naming scheme, otherwise her last name would be Romanova or Romanovna; '-off' or 'ov' are typically male versions of surnames.

    – TylerH
    Sep 11 at 18:39






  • 2





    This question confused me because I was not aware of this link between middle names and names of parents (and it also isn't explained in the question). But I suppose if you knew not everyone knows this, you wouldn't have had this question.

    – NotThatGuy
    Sep 11 at 22:02






  • 6





    Do you assume that Clint's middle name is "son of Edith"?

    – Kyle Strand
    Sep 11 at 23:35






  • 3





    @MontyHarder the last name could only be Romanova. Romanovna is a patronymic ("daughter of Roman"); Romanova - a last name ("female descendant of Roman").

    – IMil
    Sep 12 at 0:58







5




5





Alianovna means "daughter of Alian".

– Stop Harming Monica
Sep 11 at 11:40





Alianovna means "daughter of Alian".

– Stop Harming Monica
Sep 11 at 11:40




5




5





Her surname already shows that her name doesn't follow a general naming scheme, otherwise her last name would be Romanova or Romanovna; '-off' or 'ov' are typically male versions of surnames.

– TylerH
Sep 11 at 18:39





Her surname already shows that her name doesn't follow a general naming scheme, otherwise her last name would be Romanova or Romanovna; '-off' or 'ov' are typically male versions of surnames.

– TylerH
Sep 11 at 18:39




2




2





This question confused me because I was not aware of this link between middle names and names of parents (and it also isn't explained in the question). But I suppose if you knew not everyone knows this, you wouldn't have had this question.

– NotThatGuy
Sep 11 at 22:02





This question confused me because I was not aware of this link between middle names and names of parents (and it also isn't explained in the question). But I suppose if you knew not everyone knows this, you wouldn't have had this question.

– NotThatGuy
Sep 11 at 22:02




6




6





Do you assume that Clint's middle name is "son of Edith"?

– Kyle Strand
Sep 11 at 23:35





Do you assume that Clint's middle name is "son of Edith"?

– Kyle Strand
Sep 11 at 23:35




3




3





@MontyHarder the last name could only be Romanova. Romanovna is a patronymic ("daughter of Roman"); Romanova - a last name ("female descendant of Roman").

– IMil
Sep 12 at 0:58





@MontyHarder the last name could only be Romanova. Romanovna is a patronymic ("daughter of Roman"); Romanova - a last name ("female descendant of Roman").

– IMil
Sep 12 at 0:58










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















37



















There is no inconsistency with her middle name if her name isn't following the general Russian naming convention. Her full name is, as we find out from Arnim Zola, Natalia Alianovna Romanoff, and Red Skull is simply saying that her father's name is Ivan, not that that is her middle name.



People do have different middle names from their parents' first names, in some cultures this would even be the norm. For an example in the MCU we have Iron Man whose full name is Anthony Edward Stark and his father's full name is Howard Anthony Walter Stark. Here, Tony's first name actually comes from his father's middle name, not his middle name coming from his father's first name.




After a bit more research, though, it would seem that Russia generally uses the naming convention of:



<first name> <patronymic> <last name>


As such this would mean from Nat's patronymic her father's name should be Alian. Or her middle name should have been Ivanovna/Ivanevna. However, in the comics (Earth-616) it is revealed that Ivan Petrovich Bezukhov is actually Nat's adoptive father after saving her from rubble as we see in Black Widow: Deadly Origin Issue 1.



Comic page showing what the above paragraph describes
Click image to enlarge.



Therefore, it would seem that Nat's actual father in the MCU should be called Alian and Ivan is actually her adoptive father's name if they are true to the comics. Perhaps we'll find out more in Black Widow.



To further this Ivan Antonovich Vanko, aka Whiplash, who we see in Iron Man 2 has the father Anton Vanko. Here the middle name is a patronymic for his father and he is Russian. It would seem then like Nat's father in the MCU is actually called Alian, but Ivan adopted and raised her. Maybe Red Skull is going by the same motivations in his statement as Yondu does to Peter.




Yondu Udonta: He may have been your father, boy, but he wasn’t your daddy.



Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2




Either that or the MCU has forgone Russian naming conventions just for a small Easter Egg to the comics which isn't entirely impossible.




It's also worth noting that in Avengers: Endgame Nat says she never knew her father's name. This can still make sense in that she knew her middle name because she says "I didn't" which can mean she didn't until Arnim told her, her middle name or she didn't until Red Skull just told her.




Clint Barton: Why, 'cause he knows your Daddy's name?



Natasha Romanoff: I didn't. Thanos left here with the stone without his daughter. It's not a coincidence.



Avengers: Endgame




She may also have known her actual father's name, from Arnim, but not her adoptive one. Red Skull does seem to use a person's "daddy" rather than their proper father as we see when Thanos and Gamora go to him.




Red Skull: Welcome, Thanos, son of A'lars. Gamora, daughter of Thanos.



Avengers: Infinity War







share|improve this answer























  • 1





    @Shreedhar I've done a bit more research and updated, there may actually be a small inconsistency here.

    – TheLethalCarrot
    Sep 11 at 9:29






  • 2





    Note that Nat does say in Endgame that she never knew her father's name. As such, her middle name wouldn't have been likely to come from her “actual” father (for whatever value of “actual” the Red Skull/Soul Stone uses, given that Gamora is described as daughter of Thay-nos).

    – Paul D. Waite
    Sep 11 at 9:54






  • 1





    @PaulD.Waite It's possible she never knew her middle name until Arnim says it in TWS. I think the scene in Endgame would still make sense with that interpretation. I'll edit this in, in a minute though because it's a good point.

    – TheLethalCarrot
    Sep 11 at 10:03






  • 8





    @Shreedhar not really. -ovna means "daughter of"

    – Stop Harming Monica
    Sep 11 at 11:39






  • 3





    Who else thinks that comic books are nerd soap operas?

    – RonJohn
    Sep 11 at 22:41


















4



















There is only one option regarding middle name in Russian (and in all Slavonian countries) - in fact it is patronymic but not a second name.
And it always equals to the [name of the FATHER] + [possessive ending] like "son of" "daughter of".



Regarding "Alianovna" - it sounds like a joke or might be a bad transcription. There is no such Slavonian name (at least for now).



That means if Natasha's father is Ivan - she definitely has 'legal' second name - [Ivan]ovna.






share|improve this answer




























  • ...which is quite possibly what was in fact said, and whoever transcribed it into the form written in the question mistakenly wrote "Alianova" instead of "Ivanovna". To someone who doesn't hear Russian names every day, the one may well have sounded like the other.

    – T.E.D.
    Sep 11 at 22:07












  • @T.E.D. youtube.com/watch?v=_AUs3J995Fc. Transcript sounds accurate to me.

    – Timbo
    Sep 11 at 23:15






  • 3





    Do you mean Slavic? Slavonian seems something else altogether.

    – muru
    Sep 12 at 4:51












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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









37



















There is no inconsistency with her middle name if her name isn't following the general Russian naming convention. Her full name is, as we find out from Arnim Zola, Natalia Alianovna Romanoff, and Red Skull is simply saying that her father's name is Ivan, not that that is her middle name.



People do have different middle names from their parents' first names, in some cultures this would even be the norm. For an example in the MCU we have Iron Man whose full name is Anthony Edward Stark and his father's full name is Howard Anthony Walter Stark. Here, Tony's first name actually comes from his father's middle name, not his middle name coming from his father's first name.




After a bit more research, though, it would seem that Russia generally uses the naming convention of:



<first name> <patronymic> <last name>


As such this would mean from Nat's patronymic her father's name should be Alian. Or her middle name should have been Ivanovna/Ivanevna. However, in the comics (Earth-616) it is revealed that Ivan Petrovich Bezukhov is actually Nat's adoptive father after saving her from rubble as we see in Black Widow: Deadly Origin Issue 1.



Comic page showing what the above paragraph describes
Click image to enlarge.



Therefore, it would seem that Nat's actual father in the MCU should be called Alian and Ivan is actually her adoptive father's name if they are true to the comics. Perhaps we'll find out more in Black Widow.



To further this Ivan Antonovich Vanko, aka Whiplash, who we see in Iron Man 2 has the father Anton Vanko. Here the middle name is a patronymic for his father and he is Russian. It would seem then like Nat's father in the MCU is actually called Alian, but Ivan adopted and raised her. Maybe Red Skull is going by the same motivations in his statement as Yondu does to Peter.




Yondu Udonta: He may have been your father, boy, but he wasn’t your daddy.



Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2




Either that or the MCU has forgone Russian naming conventions just for a small Easter Egg to the comics which isn't entirely impossible.




It's also worth noting that in Avengers: Endgame Nat says she never knew her father's name. This can still make sense in that she knew her middle name because she says "I didn't" which can mean she didn't until Arnim told her, her middle name or she didn't until Red Skull just told her.




Clint Barton: Why, 'cause he knows your Daddy's name?



Natasha Romanoff: I didn't. Thanos left here with the stone without his daughter. It's not a coincidence.



Avengers: Endgame




She may also have known her actual father's name, from Arnim, but not her adoptive one. Red Skull does seem to use a person's "daddy" rather than their proper father as we see when Thanos and Gamora go to him.




Red Skull: Welcome, Thanos, son of A'lars. Gamora, daughter of Thanos.



Avengers: Infinity War







share|improve this answer























  • 1





    @Shreedhar I've done a bit more research and updated, there may actually be a small inconsistency here.

    – TheLethalCarrot
    Sep 11 at 9:29






  • 2





    Note that Nat does say in Endgame that she never knew her father's name. As such, her middle name wouldn't have been likely to come from her “actual” father (for whatever value of “actual” the Red Skull/Soul Stone uses, given that Gamora is described as daughter of Thay-nos).

    – Paul D. Waite
    Sep 11 at 9:54






  • 1





    @PaulD.Waite It's possible she never knew her middle name until Arnim says it in TWS. I think the scene in Endgame would still make sense with that interpretation. I'll edit this in, in a minute though because it's a good point.

    – TheLethalCarrot
    Sep 11 at 10:03






  • 8





    @Shreedhar not really. -ovna means "daughter of"

    – Stop Harming Monica
    Sep 11 at 11:39






  • 3





    Who else thinks that comic books are nerd soap operas?

    – RonJohn
    Sep 11 at 22:41















37



















There is no inconsistency with her middle name if her name isn't following the general Russian naming convention. Her full name is, as we find out from Arnim Zola, Natalia Alianovna Romanoff, and Red Skull is simply saying that her father's name is Ivan, not that that is her middle name.



People do have different middle names from their parents' first names, in some cultures this would even be the norm. For an example in the MCU we have Iron Man whose full name is Anthony Edward Stark and his father's full name is Howard Anthony Walter Stark. Here, Tony's first name actually comes from his father's middle name, not his middle name coming from his father's first name.




After a bit more research, though, it would seem that Russia generally uses the naming convention of:



<first name> <patronymic> <last name>


As such this would mean from Nat's patronymic her father's name should be Alian. Or her middle name should have been Ivanovna/Ivanevna. However, in the comics (Earth-616) it is revealed that Ivan Petrovich Bezukhov is actually Nat's adoptive father after saving her from rubble as we see in Black Widow: Deadly Origin Issue 1.



Comic page showing what the above paragraph describes
Click image to enlarge.



Therefore, it would seem that Nat's actual father in the MCU should be called Alian and Ivan is actually her adoptive father's name if they are true to the comics. Perhaps we'll find out more in Black Widow.



To further this Ivan Antonovich Vanko, aka Whiplash, who we see in Iron Man 2 has the father Anton Vanko. Here the middle name is a patronymic for his father and he is Russian. It would seem then like Nat's father in the MCU is actually called Alian, but Ivan adopted and raised her. Maybe Red Skull is going by the same motivations in his statement as Yondu does to Peter.




Yondu Udonta: He may have been your father, boy, but he wasn’t your daddy.



Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2




Either that or the MCU has forgone Russian naming conventions just for a small Easter Egg to the comics which isn't entirely impossible.




It's also worth noting that in Avengers: Endgame Nat says she never knew her father's name. This can still make sense in that she knew her middle name because she says "I didn't" which can mean she didn't until Arnim told her, her middle name or she didn't until Red Skull just told her.




Clint Barton: Why, 'cause he knows your Daddy's name?



Natasha Romanoff: I didn't. Thanos left here with the stone without his daughter. It's not a coincidence.



Avengers: Endgame




She may also have known her actual father's name, from Arnim, but not her adoptive one. Red Skull does seem to use a person's "daddy" rather than their proper father as we see when Thanos and Gamora go to him.




Red Skull: Welcome, Thanos, son of A'lars. Gamora, daughter of Thanos.



Avengers: Infinity War







share|improve this answer























  • 1





    @Shreedhar I've done a bit more research and updated, there may actually be a small inconsistency here.

    – TheLethalCarrot
    Sep 11 at 9:29






  • 2





    Note that Nat does say in Endgame that she never knew her father's name. As such, her middle name wouldn't have been likely to come from her “actual” father (for whatever value of “actual” the Red Skull/Soul Stone uses, given that Gamora is described as daughter of Thay-nos).

    – Paul D. Waite
    Sep 11 at 9:54






  • 1





    @PaulD.Waite It's possible she never knew her middle name until Arnim says it in TWS. I think the scene in Endgame would still make sense with that interpretation. I'll edit this in, in a minute though because it's a good point.

    – TheLethalCarrot
    Sep 11 at 10:03






  • 8





    @Shreedhar not really. -ovna means "daughter of"

    – Stop Harming Monica
    Sep 11 at 11:39






  • 3





    Who else thinks that comic books are nerd soap operas?

    – RonJohn
    Sep 11 at 22:41













37















37











37









There is no inconsistency with her middle name if her name isn't following the general Russian naming convention. Her full name is, as we find out from Arnim Zola, Natalia Alianovna Romanoff, and Red Skull is simply saying that her father's name is Ivan, not that that is her middle name.



People do have different middle names from their parents' first names, in some cultures this would even be the norm. For an example in the MCU we have Iron Man whose full name is Anthony Edward Stark and his father's full name is Howard Anthony Walter Stark. Here, Tony's first name actually comes from his father's middle name, not his middle name coming from his father's first name.




After a bit more research, though, it would seem that Russia generally uses the naming convention of:



<first name> <patronymic> <last name>


As such this would mean from Nat's patronymic her father's name should be Alian. Or her middle name should have been Ivanovna/Ivanevna. However, in the comics (Earth-616) it is revealed that Ivan Petrovich Bezukhov is actually Nat's adoptive father after saving her from rubble as we see in Black Widow: Deadly Origin Issue 1.



Comic page showing what the above paragraph describes
Click image to enlarge.



Therefore, it would seem that Nat's actual father in the MCU should be called Alian and Ivan is actually her adoptive father's name if they are true to the comics. Perhaps we'll find out more in Black Widow.



To further this Ivan Antonovich Vanko, aka Whiplash, who we see in Iron Man 2 has the father Anton Vanko. Here the middle name is a patronymic for his father and he is Russian. It would seem then like Nat's father in the MCU is actually called Alian, but Ivan adopted and raised her. Maybe Red Skull is going by the same motivations in his statement as Yondu does to Peter.




Yondu Udonta: He may have been your father, boy, but he wasn’t your daddy.



Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2




Either that or the MCU has forgone Russian naming conventions just for a small Easter Egg to the comics which isn't entirely impossible.




It's also worth noting that in Avengers: Endgame Nat says she never knew her father's name. This can still make sense in that she knew her middle name because she says "I didn't" which can mean she didn't until Arnim told her, her middle name or she didn't until Red Skull just told her.




Clint Barton: Why, 'cause he knows your Daddy's name?



Natasha Romanoff: I didn't. Thanos left here with the stone without his daughter. It's not a coincidence.



Avengers: Endgame




She may also have known her actual father's name, from Arnim, but not her adoptive one. Red Skull does seem to use a person's "daddy" rather than their proper father as we see when Thanos and Gamora go to him.




Red Skull: Welcome, Thanos, son of A'lars. Gamora, daughter of Thanos.



Avengers: Infinity War







share|improve this answer
















There is no inconsistency with her middle name if her name isn't following the general Russian naming convention. Her full name is, as we find out from Arnim Zola, Natalia Alianovna Romanoff, and Red Skull is simply saying that her father's name is Ivan, not that that is her middle name.



People do have different middle names from their parents' first names, in some cultures this would even be the norm. For an example in the MCU we have Iron Man whose full name is Anthony Edward Stark and his father's full name is Howard Anthony Walter Stark. Here, Tony's first name actually comes from his father's middle name, not his middle name coming from his father's first name.




After a bit more research, though, it would seem that Russia generally uses the naming convention of:



<first name> <patronymic> <last name>


As such this would mean from Nat's patronymic her father's name should be Alian. Or her middle name should have been Ivanovna/Ivanevna. However, in the comics (Earth-616) it is revealed that Ivan Petrovich Bezukhov is actually Nat's adoptive father after saving her from rubble as we see in Black Widow: Deadly Origin Issue 1.



Comic page showing what the above paragraph describes
Click image to enlarge.



Therefore, it would seem that Nat's actual father in the MCU should be called Alian and Ivan is actually her adoptive father's name if they are true to the comics. Perhaps we'll find out more in Black Widow.



To further this Ivan Antonovich Vanko, aka Whiplash, who we see in Iron Man 2 has the father Anton Vanko. Here the middle name is a patronymic for his father and he is Russian. It would seem then like Nat's father in the MCU is actually called Alian, but Ivan adopted and raised her. Maybe Red Skull is going by the same motivations in his statement as Yondu does to Peter.




Yondu Udonta: He may have been your father, boy, but he wasn’t your daddy.



Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2




Either that or the MCU has forgone Russian naming conventions just for a small Easter Egg to the comics which isn't entirely impossible.




It's also worth noting that in Avengers: Endgame Nat says she never knew her father's name. This can still make sense in that she knew her middle name because she says "I didn't" which can mean she didn't until Arnim told her, her middle name or she didn't until Red Skull just told her.




Clint Barton: Why, 'cause he knows your Daddy's name?



Natasha Romanoff: I didn't. Thanos left here with the stone without his daughter. It's not a coincidence.



Avengers: Endgame




She may also have known her actual father's name, from Arnim, but not her adoptive one. Red Skull does seem to use a person's "daddy" rather than their proper father as we see when Thanos and Gamora go to him.




Red Skull: Welcome, Thanos, son of A'lars. Gamora, daughter of Thanos.



Avengers: Infinity War








share|improve this answer















share|improve this answer




share|improve this answer








edited Sep 11 at 18:38









TylerH

1,70712 silver badges27 bronze badges




1,70712 silver badges27 bronze badges










answered Sep 11 at 8:57









TheLethalCarrotTheLethalCarrot

89.6k38 gold badges546 silver badges588 bronze badges




89.6k38 gold badges546 silver badges588 bronze badges










  • 1





    @Shreedhar I've done a bit more research and updated, there may actually be a small inconsistency here.

    – TheLethalCarrot
    Sep 11 at 9:29






  • 2





    Note that Nat does say in Endgame that she never knew her father's name. As such, her middle name wouldn't have been likely to come from her “actual” father (for whatever value of “actual” the Red Skull/Soul Stone uses, given that Gamora is described as daughter of Thay-nos).

    – Paul D. Waite
    Sep 11 at 9:54






  • 1





    @PaulD.Waite It's possible she never knew her middle name until Arnim says it in TWS. I think the scene in Endgame would still make sense with that interpretation. I'll edit this in, in a minute though because it's a good point.

    – TheLethalCarrot
    Sep 11 at 10:03






  • 8





    @Shreedhar not really. -ovna means "daughter of"

    – Stop Harming Monica
    Sep 11 at 11:39






  • 3





    Who else thinks that comic books are nerd soap operas?

    – RonJohn
    Sep 11 at 22:41












  • 1





    @Shreedhar I've done a bit more research and updated, there may actually be a small inconsistency here.

    – TheLethalCarrot
    Sep 11 at 9:29






  • 2





    Note that Nat does say in Endgame that she never knew her father's name. As such, her middle name wouldn't have been likely to come from her “actual” father (for whatever value of “actual” the Red Skull/Soul Stone uses, given that Gamora is described as daughter of Thay-nos).

    – Paul D. Waite
    Sep 11 at 9:54






  • 1





    @PaulD.Waite It's possible she never knew her middle name until Arnim says it in TWS. I think the scene in Endgame would still make sense with that interpretation. I'll edit this in, in a minute though because it's a good point.

    – TheLethalCarrot
    Sep 11 at 10:03






  • 8





    @Shreedhar not really. -ovna means "daughter of"

    – Stop Harming Monica
    Sep 11 at 11:39






  • 3





    Who else thinks that comic books are nerd soap operas?

    – RonJohn
    Sep 11 at 22:41







1




1





@Shreedhar I've done a bit more research and updated, there may actually be a small inconsistency here.

– TheLethalCarrot
Sep 11 at 9:29





@Shreedhar I've done a bit more research and updated, there may actually be a small inconsistency here.

– TheLethalCarrot
Sep 11 at 9:29




2




2





Note that Nat does say in Endgame that she never knew her father's name. As such, her middle name wouldn't have been likely to come from her “actual” father (for whatever value of “actual” the Red Skull/Soul Stone uses, given that Gamora is described as daughter of Thay-nos).

– Paul D. Waite
Sep 11 at 9:54





Note that Nat does say in Endgame that she never knew her father's name. As such, her middle name wouldn't have been likely to come from her “actual” father (for whatever value of “actual” the Red Skull/Soul Stone uses, given that Gamora is described as daughter of Thay-nos).

– Paul D. Waite
Sep 11 at 9:54




1




1





@PaulD.Waite It's possible she never knew her middle name until Arnim says it in TWS. I think the scene in Endgame would still make sense with that interpretation. I'll edit this in, in a minute though because it's a good point.

– TheLethalCarrot
Sep 11 at 10:03





@PaulD.Waite It's possible she never knew her middle name until Arnim says it in TWS. I think the scene in Endgame would still make sense with that interpretation. I'll edit this in, in a minute though because it's a good point.

– TheLethalCarrot
Sep 11 at 10:03




8




8





@Shreedhar not really. -ovna means "daughter of"

– Stop Harming Monica
Sep 11 at 11:39





@Shreedhar not really. -ovna means "daughter of"

– Stop Harming Monica
Sep 11 at 11:39




3




3





Who else thinks that comic books are nerd soap operas?

– RonJohn
Sep 11 at 22:41





Who else thinks that comic books are nerd soap operas?

– RonJohn
Sep 11 at 22:41













4



















There is only one option regarding middle name in Russian (and in all Slavonian countries) - in fact it is patronymic but not a second name.
And it always equals to the [name of the FATHER] + [possessive ending] like "son of" "daughter of".



Regarding "Alianovna" - it sounds like a joke or might be a bad transcription. There is no such Slavonian name (at least for now).



That means if Natasha's father is Ivan - she definitely has 'legal' second name - [Ivan]ovna.






share|improve this answer




























  • ...which is quite possibly what was in fact said, and whoever transcribed it into the form written in the question mistakenly wrote "Alianova" instead of "Ivanovna". To someone who doesn't hear Russian names every day, the one may well have sounded like the other.

    – T.E.D.
    Sep 11 at 22:07












  • @T.E.D. youtube.com/watch?v=_AUs3J995Fc. Transcript sounds accurate to me.

    – Timbo
    Sep 11 at 23:15






  • 3





    Do you mean Slavic? Slavonian seems something else altogether.

    – muru
    Sep 12 at 4:51















4



















There is only one option regarding middle name in Russian (and in all Slavonian countries) - in fact it is patronymic but not a second name.
And it always equals to the [name of the FATHER] + [possessive ending] like "son of" "daughter of".



Regarding "Alianovna" - it sounds like a joke or might be a bad transcription. There is no such Slavonian name (at least for now).



That means if Natasha's father is Ivan - she definitely has 'legal' second name - [Ivan]ovna.






share|improve this answer




























  • ...which is quite possibly what was in fact said, and whoever transcribed it into the form written in the question mistakenly wrote "Alianova" instead of "Ivanovna". To someone who doesn't hear Russian names every day, the one may well have sounded like the other.

    – T.E.D.
    Sep 11 at 22:07












  • @T.E.D. youtube.com/watch?v=_AUs3J995Fc. Transcript sounds accurate to me.

    – Timbo
    Sep 11 at 23:15






  • 3





    Do you mean Slavic? Slavonian seems something else altogether.

    – muru
    Sep 12 at 4:51













4















4











4









There is only one option regarding middle name in Russian (and in all Slavonian countries) - in fact it is patronymic but not a second name.
And it always equals to the [name of the FATHER] + [possessive ending] like "son of" "daughter of".



Regarding "Alianovna" - it sounds like a joke or might be a bad transcription. There is no such Slavonian name (at least for now).



That means if Natasha's father is Ivan - she definitely has 'legal' second name - [Ivan]ovna.






share|improve this answer
















There is only one option regarding middle name in Russian (and in all Slavonian countries) - in fact it is patronymic but not a second name.
And it always equals to the [name of the FATHER] + [possessive ending] like "son of" "daughter of".



Regarding "Alianovna" - it sounds like a joke or might be a bad transcription. There is no such Slavonian name (at least for now).



That means if Natasha's father is Ivan - she definitely has 'legal' second name - [Ivan]ovna.







share|improve this answer















share|improve this answer




share|improve this answer








edited Sep 11 at 19:53









Jenayah

35.3k10 gold badges153 silver badges200 bronze badges




35.3k10 gold badges153 silver badges200 bronze badges










answered Sep 11 at 19:46









Denis AzarovDenis Azarov

411 bronze badge




411 bronze badge















  • ...which is quite possibly what was in fact said, and whoever transcribed it into the form written in the question mistakenly wrote "Alianova" instead of "Ivanovna". To someone who doesn't hear Russian names every day, the one may well have sounded like the other.

    – T.E.D.
    Sep 11 at 22:07












  • @T.E.D. youtube.com/watch?v=_AUs3J995Fc. Transcript sounds accurate to me.

    – Timbo
    Sep 11 at 23:15






  • 3





    Do you mean Slavic? Slavonian seems something else altogether.

    – muru
    Sep 12 at 4:51

















  • ...which is quite possibly what was in fact said, and whoever transcribed it into the form written in the question mistakenly wrote "Alianova" instead of "Ivanovna". To someone who doesn't hear Russian names every day, the one may well have sounded like the other.

    – T.E.D.
    Sep 11 at 22:07












  • @T.E.D. youtube.com/watch?v=_AUs3J995Fc. Transcript sounds accurate to me.

    – Timbo
    Sep 11 at 23:15






  • 3





    Do you mean Slavic? Slavonian seems something else altogether.

    – muru
    Sep 12 at 4:51
















...which is quite possibly what was in fact said, and whoever transcribed it into the form written in the question mistakenly wrote "Alianova" instead of "Ivanovna". To someone who doesn't hear Russian names every day, the one may well have sounded like the other.

– T.E.D.
Sep 11 at 22:07






...which is quite possibly what was in fact said, and whoever transcribed it into the form written in the question mistakenly wrote "Alianova" instead of "Ivanovna". To someone who doesn't hear Russian names every day, the one may well have sounded like the other.

– T.E.D.
Sep 11 at 22:07














@T.E.D. youtube.com/watch?v=_AUs3J995Fc. Transcript sounds accurate to me.

– Timbo
Sep 11 at 23:15





@T.E.D. youtube.com/watch?v=_AUs3J995Fc. Transcript sounds accurate to me.

– Timbo
Sep 11 at 23:15




3




3





Do you mean Slavic? Slavonian seems something else altogether.

– muru
Sep 12 at 4:51





Do you mean Slavic? Slavonian seems something else altogether.

– muru
Sep 12 at 4:51


















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