Male viewpoint in an erotic novelHow much sex is allowed in a non-romance novel?Which version of these three lines is more likely to attract the interest of the reader ? (character's viewpoint vs omnicient narrator)How explicit can violence and sex be in a YA novel?Present tense novel with past tense flashbacksStruggling to define a character without giving him viewpoint statusIs it practical to write a novel with two viewpoints and written from different points in time?Writing a first-person novel where the MC gets temporarily taken out of commission?Can I change tenses in my first person YA novel?I am afraid some scenes in my novel are too graphic for some people (Trigger warning: Sexual Assault)Describing sex in a non-erotic fiction
How do put overbrace across an (aligned) equals sign?
Employer withholds last paycheck in Virginia
What should I tell a customer when my co-worker fails to show up to a meeting?
How to avoid funny initiatives?
What other tricks were there to get more data onto floppy disks?
Why has no one requested the tape of the Trump/Ukraine call?
When can't Cramer-Rao lower bound be reached?
Include a path in a table
Stalemate situation with all pieces on the board
Raised concerns about a security vulnerability to various managers, for more than a year, with no results. Should I mention it to external auditors?
How to spot dust on lens quickly while doing a shoot outdoors?
Why are there so many binary systems?
Can the treble clef be used instead of the bass clef in piano music?
How do critical hits work with static monster damage?
Can a tail pipe fire occur in cruise (and why not)?
Several verbs in subjuntivo mood in one sentence
What does this docker log entry mean?
UK visitors visa needed fast for badly injured family member
Do any other countries aside from the UK have a tradition of ‘joke’ candidates?
Using characters to delimit commands (like markdown)
Why does Greedo say "Maclunkey" in the Mos Eisley Cantina?
Should I tell an editor that I believe an article I'm reviewing is not good enough for the journal?
How can I add an ammeter and/or voltmeter to my home breaker panel?
Is the genre 'fantasy' still fantasy without magic?
Male viewpoint in an erotic novel
How much sex is allowed in a non-romance novel?Which version of these three lines is more likely to attract the interest of the reader ? (character's viewpoint vs omnicient narrator)How explicit can violence and sex be in a YA novel?Present tense novel with past tense flashbacksStruggling to define a character without giving him viewpoint statusIs it practical to write a novel with two viewpoints and written from different points in time?Writing a first-person novel where the MC gets temporarily taken out of commission?Can I change tenses in my first person YA novel?I am afraid some scenes in my novel are too graphic for some people (Trigger warning: Sexual Assault)Describing sex in a non-erotic fiction
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty
margin-bottom:0;
.everyonelovesstackoverflowposition:absolute;height:1px;width:1px;opacity:0;top:0;left:0;pointer-events:none;
Most erotica today is written by and for women, and bestselling erotica is narrated from a female point of view. The "male pornographic gaze" that sexualizes the female body has been considered offensive by the predominant culture and mostly eradicated from contemporary mainstream literature. But men still lust over female physiology. Is it possible to narrate that experience of male sexual lust without offending female readers? How?
viewpoint sex
|
show 2 more comments
Most erotica today is written by and for women, and bestselling erotica is narrated from a female point of view. The "male pornographic gaze" that sexualizes the female body has been considered offensive by the predominant culture and mostly eradicated from contemporary mainstream literature. But men still lust over female physiology. Is it possible to narrate that experience of male sexual lust without offending female readers? How?
viewpoint sex
8
Male gaze and female gaze aren't inherently offensive, but the fact that the male gaze is ever-present and elevated in importance certainly is. But that has nothing to do with why erotic writing is from a female POV. It's because more women who like porn prefer it in written form (and don't call it porn) and more men prefer visuals. Not everyone obviously, but enough that the genres have developed accordingly.
– Cyn says make Monica whole♦
Sep 5 at 20:28
1
@Cyn I assume there's also the importance of many women writing relationship fiction in general, not just erotic novels. The vast majority of fan-fiction is written by women too. Somehow, "casual" writing became a "girlish" thing to do, perhaps originally associated with personal diaries. Reading also had a bit of a decline that hit boys harder (I had my share of being bullied for enjoying reading and writing).
– Luaan
Sep 6 at 7:27
I'm unclear on whether your intended audience is women or men?
– Weckar E.
Sep 6 at 15:00
@WeckarE. My question mentions "female readers".
– user41080
Sep 6 at 16:32
1
@user12011183 Okay. I suppose we will have to disagree on that. Thank you for the clarification.
– Weckar E.
Sep 6 at 16:48
|
show 2 more comments
Most erotica today is written by and for women, and bestselling erotica is narrated from a female point of view. The "male pornographic gaze" that sexualizes the female body has been considered offensive by the predominant culture and mostly eradicated from contemporary mainstream literature. But men still lust over female physiology. Is it possible to narrate that experience of male sexual lust without offending female readers? How?
viewpoint sex
Most erotica today is written by and for women, and bestselling erotica is narrated from a female point of view. The "male pornographic gaze" that sexualizes the female body has been considered offensive by the predominant culture and mostly eradicated from contemporary mainstream literature. But men still lust over female physiology. Is it possible to narrate that experience of male sexual lust without offending female readers? How?
viewpoint sex
viewpoint sex
asked Sep 5 at 6:38
user41080user41080
8
Male gaze and female gaze aren't inherently offensive, but the fact that the male gaze is ever-present and elevated in importance certainly is. But that has nothing to do with why erotic writing is from a female POV. It's because more women who like porn prefer it in written form (and don't call it porn) and more men prefer visuals. Not everyone obviously, but enough that the genres have developed accordingly.
– Cyn says make Monica whole♦
Sep 5 at 20:28
1
@Cyn I assume there's also the importance of many women writing relationship fiction in general, not just erotic novels. The vast majority of fan-fiction is written by women too. Somehow, "casual" writing became a "girlish" thing to do, perhaps originally associated with personal diaries. Reading also had a bit of a decline that hit boys harder (I had my share of being bullied for enjoying reading and writing).
– Luaan
Sep 6 at 7:27
I'm unclear on whether your intended audience is women or men?
– Weckar E.
Sep 6 at 15:00
@WeckarE. My question mentions "female readers".
– user41080
Sep 6 at 16:32
1
@user12011183 Okay. I suppose we will have to disagree on that. Thank you for the clarification.
– Weckar E.
Sep 6 at 16:48
|
show 2 more comments
8
Male gaze and female gaze aren't inherently offensive, but the fact that the male gaze is ever-present and elevated in importance certainly is. But that has nothing to do with why erotic writing is from a female POV. It's because more women who like porn prefer it in written form (and don't call it porn) and more men prefer visuals. Not everyone obviously, but enough that the genres have developed accordingly.
– Cyn says make Monica whole♦
Sep 5 at 20:28
1
@Cyn I assume there's also the importance of many women writing relationship fiction in general, not just erotic novels. The vast majority of fan-fiction is written by women too. Somehow, "casual" writing became a "girlish" thing to do, perhaps originally associated with personal diaries. Reading also had a bit of a decline that hit boys harder (I had my share of being bullied for enjoying reading and writing).
– Luaan
Sep 6 at 7:27
I'm unclear on whether your intended audience is women or men?
– Weckar E.
Sep 6 at 15:00
@WeckarE. My question mentions "female readers".
– user41080
Sep 6 at 16:32
1
@user12011183 Okay. I suppose we will have to disagree on that. Thank you for the clarification.
– Weckar E.
Sep 6 at 16:48
8
8
Male gaze and female gaze aren't inherently offensive, but the fact that the male gaze is ever-present and elevated in importance certainly is. But that has nothing to do with why erotic writing is from a female POV. It's because more women who like porn prefer it in written form (and don't call it porn) and more men prefer visuals. Not everyone obviously, but enough that the genres have developed accordingly.
– Cyn says make Monica whole♦
Sep 5 at 20:28
Male gaze and female gaze aren't inherently offensive, but the fact that the male gaze is ever-present and elevated in importance certainly is. But that has nothing to do with why erotic writing is from a female POV. It's because more women who like porn prefer it in written form (and don't call it porn) and more men prefer visuals. Not everyone obviously, but enough that the genres have developed accordingly.
– Cyn says make Monica whole♦
Sep 5 at 20:28
1
1
@Cyn I assume there's also the importance of many women writing relationship fiction in general, not just erotic novels. The vast majority of fan-fiction is written by women too. Somehow, "casual" writing became a "girlish" thing to do, perhaps originally associated with personal diaries. Reading also had a bit of a decline that hit boys harder (I had my share of being bullied for enjoying reading and writing).
– Luaan
Sep 6 at 7:27
@Cyn I assume there's also the importance of many women writing relationship fiction in general, not just erotic novels. The vast majority of fan-fiction is written by women too. Somehow, "casual" writing became a "girlish" thing to do, perhaps originally associated with personal diaries. Reading also had a bit of a decline that hit boys harder (I had my share of being bullied for enjoying reading and writing).
– Luaan
Sep 6 at 7:27
I'm unclear on whether your intended audience is women or men?
– Weckar E.
Sep 6 at 15:00
I'm unclear on whether your intended audience is women or men?
– Weckar E.
Sep 6 at 15:00
@WeckarE. My question mentions "female readers".
– user41080
Sep 6 at 16:32
@WeckarE. My question mentions "female readers".
– user41080
Sep 6 at 16:32
1
1
@user12011183 Okay. I suppose we will have to disagree on that. Thank you for the clarification.
– Weckar E.
Sep 6 at 16:48
@user12011183 Okay. I suppose we will have to disagree on that. Thank you for the clarification.
– Weckar E.
Sep 6 at 16:48
|
show 2 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
Erotica is not a genre I read, but the lusting male gaze in some fantasy and sci-fi - I cannot say that I always find it offensive. On the contrary - I can find it quite pleasant. I want to be lusted after this way.
Which is, I think, the key to your question: consider how a woman would want to be wanted, and how she wouldn't want to be wanted.
What are some differences?
- Heinlein's characters, for example, never consider that a woman might not be interested. Of course she is, or will be. Which is to say the woman has no character, no agency. She isn't a person, but an object with no will. That - I don't like.
- A man might be attracted to a woman's appearance, but she has other character traits, doesn't she? A man might be drawn by a woman's wit, strength, the way she moves. Or he might be repulsed by her cruelty, no matter how pretty she is. When a woman is nothing but a chunk of meat or a barbie doll, it is disturbing.
- There is the question of consent. Wanting to "do things to her" is objectifying. Wanting to do things with her, or have her do things to the guy is more interesting.
Which all boils down to: in the man's thoughts, treat the woman as a person, not an object. Men, for the most part, want women rather than sex dolls. Women want to be wanted as women, definitely not sex dolls. Win-win.
6
That last point about treating women like persons and not objects hits the nail on the head. Definitely, we're all human beings. And it sure boosts anyone's to know that they are being lusted after. And women are no different. But there's an art and a method of doing it. Anyone, regardless of their gender would not like to be objectified.
– srini
Sep 5 at 13:05
4
>Men, for the most part, want women rather than sex dolls - I strongly disagree. There is a strongly physical component to sex which is not in any way predicated upon non-physical traits. Often times sexual desire really is just about seeing someone else as a "piece of meat", and this goes for both men and women. No amount of sanitization of media will change this fundamental characteristic of human nature. OP should instead make an effort to understand the desires of his target audience, because in choosing not to be "offensive" he inevitably alienates other readers.
– user2647513
Sep 5 at 15:46
3
True, @user2647513, but it might be argued that men who are after the "strongly physical" element aren't going to the written media for it. My husband pointed out that men are visual creatures, women more enamored of words. The reason erotic writing is more female oriented is that men usually are going to the visual media for their kicks. Women read romance novels, men watch porn. That isn't an absolute, of course, but a generalization. If you want to write romance/erotica, most of your readers will be women. If you produce porn, the larger portion of your audience is male.
– Francine DeGrood Taylor
Sep 5 at 16:03
2
Lots of erotica is also about power fantasies - or rather, power-lessness fantasies. That doesn't mean that actual real women want to be actually really raped in real life; what you want in a fantasy and what you want in reality are two very different things. Women want to be treated as people, obviously - but sometimes they love to imagine being treated as objects :) In the end, it's nothing special about erotic fiction - most fiction that makes you fantasise about "being there" would quickly lose its appeal if you were actually there :D
– Luaan
Sep 6 at 7:33
add a comment
|
The problem I see is the double standard in sexualization. It seems much more acceptable nowadays for women to a have a lusty look on (attractive) men than the other way around. The cause for this might be the
still living cliché that men tend to only think this way while women 'just do it for fun'.
But this discussion is not the main point here. Personally I just strongly dislike sexualization of male or female in either way.
Describing the male view point I would make sure that lust is not the only thing the protagonist sees in his (physical) love interest. As long as he is not controlled by his sex drive there are plenty other things he recognizes on her and in her personality.
She always pins up her hair to a loose bun, revealing the skin of her neck. He tries not to constantly look, dissipating the thought of touching the soft skin behind her ear with his lips. But every time he regains control over his flittering thoughts, she smoothes some loose wisps back, catching his eyes with her secretive movements.
If you are able to show that his thoughts are more than
See woman, want sex
you should have no problem. It is indeed utterly impossible to not offend anyone. But if you write in a respectful manner, the only ones to be outraged will most probably be misandrics that aren't your target audience anyways.
2
It has been ok for women for a long time to lust after men while the reverse is dirty. Compare the public image of the Chippendales with that of any female strip show. This is not a new development.
– Tom
Sep 6 at 5:15
Yeah, you've got a point there. With 'nowadays' I was just referencing to the time I have lived so far and how I perceived it. Shouldn't have opened this discussion, it just distracts of the main point here. Glad @Galastel nailed it with her answer :-3
– Viktor Katzy
Sep 6 at 5:23
@Tom: Are you sure the difference is gender and not whether the lusted-after interest is someone who's sexualized themselves as a profession or as something they enjoy versus someone who's trying to go about their day or be treated equally as a professional in their (non-sexual) work environment? Chippendales are sex workers. I don't think it's considered dirty to take interest in sex workers, male or female, as long as you're acknowledging that it's their work and that they have boundaries like anyone else. What's diirty is doing that to your coworkers/classmates/etc.
– R..
Sep 6 at 21:55
add a comment
|
Borrow liberally from male-oriented (often Japanese) erotic literature.
It does exist, contrary to the assertion in the question; it's just heavily oriented towards nerds, as a result of its roots growing out from Japanese popular culture (e.g. manga, anime, and light novels). Many of the original Japanese works were even written by women - for instance, the ecchi harem manga Sekirei was written by a woman who was a fan of gay male romance stories, who ultimately decided that she wanted to make more money so she wrote a story about a guy who gets a harem of busty women.
add a comment
|
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "166"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/"u003ecc by-sa 4.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fwriting.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f47827%2fmale-viewpoint-in-an-erotic-novel%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Erotica is not a genre I read, but the lusting male gaze in some fantasy and sci-fi - I cannot say that I always find it offensive. On the contrary - I can find it quite pleasant. I want to be lusted after this way.
Which is, I think, the key to your question: consider how a woman would want to be wanted, and how she wouldn't want to be wanted.
What are some differences?
- Heinlein's characters, for example, never consider that a woman might not be interested. Of course she is, or will be. Which is to say the woman has no character, no agency. She isn't a person, but an object with no will. That - I don't like.
- A man might be attracted to a woman's appearance, but she has other character traits, doesn't she? A man might be drawn by a woman's wit, strength, the way she moves. Or he might be repulsed by her cruelty, no matter how pretty she is. When a woman is nothing but a chunk of meat or a barbie doll, it is disturbing.
- There is the question of consent. Wanting to "do things to her" is objectifying. Wanting to do things with her, or have her do things to the guy is more interesting.
Which all boils down to: in the man's thoughts, treat the woman as a person, not an object. Men, for the most part, want women rather than sex dolls. Women want to be wanted as women, definitely not sex dolls. Win-win.
6
That last point about treating women like persons and not objects hits the nail on the head. Definitely, we're all human beings. And it sure boosts anyone's to know that they are being lusted after. And women are no different. But there's an art and a method of doing it. Anyone, regardless of their gender would not like to be objectified.
– srini
Sep 5 at 13:05
4
>Men, for the most part, want women rather than sex dolls - I strongly disagree. There is a strongly physical component to sex which is not in any way predicated upon non-physical traits. Often times sexual desire really is just about seeing someone else as a "piece of meat", and this goes for both men and women. No amount of sanitization of media will change this fundamental characteristic of human nature. OP should instead make an effort to understand the desires of his target audience, because in choosing not to be "offensive" he inevitably alienates other readers.
– user2647513
Sep 5 at 15:46
3
True, @user2647513, but it might be argued that men who are after the "strongly physical" element aren't going to the written media for it. My husband pointed out that men are visual creatures, women more enamored of words. The reason erotic writing is more female oriented is that men usually are going to the visual media for their kicks. Women read romance novels, men watch porn. That isn't an absolute, of course, but a generalization. If you want to write romance/erotica, most of your readers will be women. If you produce porn, the larger portion of your audience is male.
– Francine DeGrood Taylor
Sep 5 at 16:03
2
Lots of erotica is also about power fantasies - or rather, power-lessness fantasies. That doesn't mean that actual real women want to be actually really raped in real life; what you want in a fantasy and what you want in reality are two very different things. Women want to be treated as people, obviously - but sometimes they love to imagine being treated as objects :) In the end, it's nothing special about erotic fiction - most fiction that makes you fantasise about "being there" would quickly lose its appeal if you were actually there :D
– Luaan
Sep 6 at 7:33
add a comment
|
Erotica is not a genre I read, but the lusting male gaze in some fantasy and sci-fi - I cannot say that I always find it offensive. On the contrary - I can find it quite pleasant. I want to be lusted after this way.
Which is, I think, the key to your question: consider how a woman would want to be wanted, and how she wouldn't want to be wanted.
What are some differences?
- Heinlein's characters, for example, never consider that a woman might not be interested. Of course she is, or will be. Which is to say the woman has no character, no agency. She isn't a person, but an object with no will. That - I don't like.
- A man might be attracted to a woman's appearance, but she has other character traits, doesn't she? A man might be drawn by a woman's wit, strength, the way she moves. Or he might be repulsed by her cruelty, no matter how pretty she is. When a woman is nothing but a chunk of meat or a barbie doll, it is disturbing.
- There is the question of consent. Wanting to "do things to her" is objectifying. Wanting to do things with her, or have her do things to the guy is more interesting.
Which all boils down to: in the man's thoughts, treat the woman as a person, not an object. Men, for the most part, want women rather than sex dolls. Women want to be wanted as women, definitely not sex dolls. Win-win.
6
That last point about treating women like persons and not objects hits the nail on the head. Definitely, we're all human beings. And it sure boosts anyone's to know that they are being lusted after. And women are no different. But there's an art and a method of doing it. Anyone, regardless of their gender would not like to be objectified.
– srini
Sep 5 at 13:05
4
>Men, for the most part, want women rather than sex dolls - I strongly disagree. There is a strongly physical component to sex which is not in any way predicated upon non-physical traits. Often times sexual desire really is just about seeing someone else as a "piece of meat", and this goes for both men and women. No amount of sanitization of media will change this fundamental characteristic of human nature. OP should instead make an effort to understand the desires of his target audience, because in choosing not to be "offensive" he inevitably alienates other readers.
– user2647513
Sep 5 at 15:46
3
True, @user2647513, but it might be argued that men who are after the "strongly physical" element aren't going to the written media for it. My husband pointed out that men are visual creatures, women more enamored of words. The reason erotic writing is more female oriented is that men usually are going to the visual media for their kicks. Women read romance novels, men watch porn. That isn't an absolute, of course, but a generalization. If you want to write romance/erotica, most of your readers will be women. If you produce porn, the larger portion of your audience is male.
– Francine DeGrood Taylor
Sep 5 at 16:03
2
Lots of erotica is also about power fantasies - or rather, power-lessness fantasies. That doesn't mean that actual real women want to be actually really raped in real life; what you want in a fantasy and what you want in reality are two very different things. Women want to be treated as people, obviously - but sometimes they love to imagine being treated as objects :) In the end, it's nothing special about erotic fiction - most fiction that makes you fantasise about "being there" would quickly lose its appeal if you were actually there :D
– Luaan
Sep 6 at 7:33
add a comment
|
Erotica is not a genre I read, but the lusting male gaze in some fantasy and sci-fi - I cannot say that I always find it offensive. On the contrary - I can find it quite pleasant. I want to be lusted after this way.
Which is, I think, the key to your question: consider how a woman would want to be wanted, and how she wouldn't want to be wanted.
What are some differences?
- Heinlein's characters, for example, never consider that a woman might not be interested. Of course she is, or will be. Which is to say the woman has no character, no agency. She isn't a person, but an object with no will. That - I don't like.
- A man might be attracted to a woman's appearance, but she has other character traits, doesn't she? A man might be drawn by a woman's wit, strength, the way she moves. Or he might be repulsed by her cruelty, no matter how pretty she is. When a woman is nothing but a chunk of meat or a barbie doll, it is disturbing.
- There is the question of consent. Wanting to "do things to her" is objectifying. Wanting to do things with her, or have her do things to the guy is more interesting.
Which all boils down to: in the man's thoughts, treat the woman as a person, not an object. Men, for the most part, want women rather than sex dolls. Women want to be wanted as women, definitely not sex dolls. Win-win.
Erotica is not a genre I read, but the lusting male gaze in some fantasy and sci-fi - I cannot say that I always find it offensive. On the contrary - I can find it quite pleasant. I want to be lusted after this way.
Which is, I think, the key to your question: consider how a woman would want to be wanted, and how she wouldn't want to be wanted.
What are some differences?
- Heinlein's characters, for example, never consider that a woman might not be interested. Of course she is, or will be. Which is to say the woman has no character, no agency. She isn't a person, but an object with no will. That - I don't like.
- A man might be attracted to a woman's appearance, but she has other character traits, doesn't she? A man might be drawn by a woman's wit, strength, the way she moves. Or he might be repulsed by her cruelty, no matter how pretty she is. When a woman is nothing but a chunk of meat or a barbie doll, it is disturbing.
- There is the question of consent. Wanting to "do things to her" is objectifying. Wanting to do things with her, or have her do things to the guy is more interesting.
Which all boils down to: in the man's thoughts, treat the woman as a person, not an object. Men, for the most part, want women rather than sex dolls. Women want to be wanted as women, definitely not sex dolls. Win-win.
answered Sep 5 at 7:19
Galastel supports GoFundMonicaGalastel supports GoFundMonica
55.6k9 gold badges160 silver badges289 bronze badges
55.6k9 gold badges160 silver badges289 bronze badges
6
That last point about treating women like persons and not objects hits the nail on the head. Definitely, we're all human beings. And it sure boosts anyone's to know that they are being lusted after. And women are no different. But there's an art and a method of doing it. Anyone, regardless of their gender would not like to be objectified.
– srini
Sep 5 at 13:05
4
>Men, for the most part, want women rather than sex dolls - I strongly disagree. There is a strongly physical component to sex which is not in any way predicated upon non-physical traits. Often times sexual desire really is just about seeing someone else as a "piece of meat", and this goes for both men and women. No amount of sanitization of media will change this fundamental characteristic of human nature. OP should instead make an effort to understand the desires of his target audience, because in choosing not to be "offensive" he inevitably alienates other readers.
– user2647513
Sep 5 at 15:46
3
True, @user2647513, but it might be argued that men who are after the "strongly physical" element aren't going to the written media for it. My husband pointed out that men are visual creatures, women more enamored of words. The reason erotic writing is more female oriented is that men usually are going to the visual media for their kicks. Women read romance novels, men watch porn. That isn't an absolute, of course, but a generalization. If you want to write romance/erotica, most of your readers will be women. If you produce porn, the larger portion of your audience is male.
– Francine DeGrood Taylor
Sep 5 at 16:03
2
Lots of erotica is also about power fantasies - or rather, power-lessness fantasies. That doesn't mean that actual real women want to be actually really raped in real life; what you want in a fantasy and what you want in reality are two very different things. Women want to be treated as people, obviously - but sometimes they love to imagine being treated as objects :) In the end, it's nothing special about erotic fiction - most fiction that makes you fantasise about "being there" would quickly lose its appeal if you were actually there :D
– Luaan
Sep 6 at 7:33
add a comment
|
6
That last point about treating women like persons and not objects hits the nail on the head. Definitely, we're all human beings. And it sure boosts anyone's to know that they are being lusted after. And women are no different. But there's an art and a method of doing it. Anyone, regardless of their gender would not like to be objectified.
– srini
Sep 5 at 13:05
4
>Men, for the most part, want women rather than sex dolls - I strongly disagree. There is a strongly physical component to sex which is not in any way predicated upon non-physical traits. Often times sexual desire really is just about seeing someone else as a "piece of meat", and this goes for both men and women. No amount of sanitization of media will change this fundamental characteristic of human nature. OP should instead make an effort to understand the desires of his target audience, because in choosing not to be "offensive" he inevitably alienates other readers.
– user2647513
Sep 5 at 15:46
3
True, @user2647513, but it might be argued that men who are after the "strongly physical" element aren't going to the written media for it. My husband pointed out that men are visual creatures, women more enamored of words. The reason erotic writing is more female oriented is that men usually are going to the visual media for their kicks. Women read romance novels, men watch porn. That isn't an absolute, of course, but a generalization. If you want to write romance/erotica, most of your readers will be women. If you produce porn, the larger portion of your audience is male.
– Francine DeGrood Taylor
Sep 5 at 16:03
2
Lots of erotica is also about power fantasies - or rather, power-lessness fantasies. That doesn't mean that actual real women want to be actually really raped in real life; what you want in a fantasy and what you want in reality are two very different things. Women want to be treated as people, obviously - but sometimes they love to imagine being treated as objects :) In the end, it's nothing special about erotic fiction - most fiction that makes you fantasise about "being there" would quickly lose its appeal if you were actually there :D
– Luaan
Sep 6 at 7:33
6
6
That last point about treating women like persons and not objects hits the nail on the head. Definitely, we're all human beings. And it sure boosts anyone's to know that they are being lusted after. And women are no different. But there's an art and a method of doing it. Anyone, regardless of their gender would not like to be objectified.
– srini
Sep 5 at 13:05
That last point about treating women like persons and not objects hits the nail on the head. Definitely, we're all human beings. And it sure boosts anyone's to know that they are being lusted after. And women are no different. But there's an art and a method of doing it. Anyone, regardless of their gender would not like to be objectified.
– srini
Sep 5 at 13:05
4
4
>Men, for the most part, want women rather than sex dolls - I strongly disagree. There is a strongly physical component to sex which is not in any way predicated upon non-physical traits. Often times sexual desire really is just about seeing someone else as a "piece of meat", and this goes for both men and women. No amount of sanitization of media will change this fundamental characteristic of human nature. OP should instead make an effort to understand the desires of his target audience, because in choosing not to be "offensive" he inevitably alienates other readers.
– user2647513
Sep 5 at 15:46
>Men, for the most part, want women rather than sex dolls - I strongly disagree. There is a strongly physical component to sex which is not in any way predicated upon non-physical traits. Often times sexual desire really is just about seeing someone else as a "piece of meat", and this goes for both men and women. No amount of sanitization of media will change this fundamental characteristic of human nature. OP should instead make an effort to understand the desires of his target audience, because in choosing not to be "offensive" he inevitably alienates other readers.
– user2647513
Sep 5 at 15:46
3
3
True, @user2647513, but it might be argued that men who are after the "strongly physical" element aren't going to the written media for it. My husband pointed out that men are visual creatures, women more enamored of words. The reason erotic writing is more female oriented is that men usually are going to the visual media for their kicks. Women read romance novels, men watch porn. That isn't an absolute, of course, but a generalization. If you want to write romance/erotica, most of your readers will be women. If you produce porn, the larger portion of your audience is male.
– Francine DeGrood Taylor
Sep 5 at 16:03
True, @user2647513, but it might be argued that men who are after the "strongly physical" element aren't going to the written media for it. My husband pointed out that men are visual creatures, women more enamored of words. The reason erotic writing is more female oriented is that men usually are going to the visual media for their kicks. Women read romance novels, men watch porn. That isn't an absolute, of course, but a generalization. If you want to write romance/erotica, most of your readers will be women. If you produce porn, the larger portion of your audience is male.
– Francine DeGrood Taylor
Sep 5 at 16:03
2
2
Lots of erotica is also about power fantasies - or rather, power-lessness fantasies. That doesn't mean that actual real women want to be actually really raped in real life; what you want in a fantasy and what you want in reality are two very different things. Women want to be treated as people, obviously - but sometimes they love to imagine being treated as objects :) In the end, it's nothing special about erotic fiction - most fiction that makes you fantasise about "being there" would quickly lose its appeal if you were actually there :D
– Luaan
Sep 6 at 7:33
Lots of erotica is also about power fantasies - or rather, power-lessness fantasies. That doesn't mean that actual real women want to be actually really raped in real life; what you want in a fantasy and what you want in reality are two very different things. Women want to be treated as people, obviously - but sometimes they love to imagine being treated as objects :) In the end, it's nothing special about erotic fiction - most fiction that makes you fantasise about "being there" would quickly lose its appeal if you were actually there :D
– Luaan
Sep 6 at 7:33
add a comment
|
The problem I see is the double standard in sexualization. It seems much more acceptable nowadays for women to a have a lusty look on (attractive) men than the other way around. The cause for this might be the
still living cliché that men tend to only think this way while women 'just do it for fun'.
But this discussion is not the main point here. Personally I just strongly dislike sexualization of male or female in either way.
Describing the male view point I would make sure that lust is not the only thing the protagonist sees in his (physical) love interest. As long as he is not controlled by his sex drive there are plenty other things he recognizes on her and in her personality.
She always pins up her hair to a loose bun, revealing the skin of her neck. He tries not to constantly look, dissipating the thought of touching the soft skin behind her ear with his lips. But every time he regains control over his flittering thoughts, she smoothes some loose wisps back, catching his eyes with her secretive movements.
If you are able to show that his thoughts are more than
See woman, want sex
you should have no problem. It is indeed utterly impossible to not offend anyone. But if you write in a respectful manner, the only ones to be outraged will most probably be misandrics that aren't your target audience anyways.
2
It has been ok for women for a long time to lust after men while the reverse is dirty. Compare the public image of the Chippendales with that of any female strip show. This is not a new development.
– Tom
Sep 6 at 5:15
Yeah, you've got a point there. With 'nowadays' I was just referencing to the time I have lived so far and how I perceived it. Shouldn't have opened this discussion, it just distracts of the main point here. Glad @Galastel nailed it with her answer :-3
– Viktor Katzy
Sep 6 at 5:23
@Tom: Are you sure the difference is gender and not whether the lusted-after interest is someone who's sexualized themselves as a profession or as something they enjoy versus someone who's trying to go about their day or be treated equally as a professional in their (non-sexual) work environment? Chippendales are sex workers. I don't think it's considered dirty to take interest in sex workers, male or female, as long as you're acknowledging that it's their work and that they have boundaries like anyone else. What's diirty is doing that to your coworkers/classmates/etc.
– R..
Sep 6 at 21:55
add a comment
|
The problem I see is the double standard in sexualization. It seems much more acceptable nowadays for women to a have a lusty look on (attractive) men than the other way around. The cause for this might be the
still living cliché that men tend to only think this way while women 'just do it for fun'.
But this discussion is not the main point here. Personally I just strongly dislike sexualization of male or female in either way.
Describing the male view point I would make sure that lust is not the only thing the protagonist sees in his (physical) love interest. As long as he is not controlled by his sex drive there are plenty other things he recognizes on her and in her personality.
She always pins up her hair to a loose bun, revealing the skin of her neck. He tries not to constantly look, dissipating the thought of touching the soft skin behind her ear with his lips. But every time he regains control over his flittering thoughts, she smoothes some loose wisps back, catching his eyes with her secretive movements.
If you are able to show that his thoughts are more than
See woman, want sex
you should have no problem. It is indeed utterly impossible to not offend anyone. But if you write in a respectful manner, the only ones to be outraged will most probably be misandrics that aren't your target audience anyways.
2
It has been ok for women for a long time to lust after men while the reverse is dirty. Compare the public image of the Chippendales with that of any female strip show. This is not a new development.
– Tom
Sep 6 at 5:15
Yeah, you've got a point there. With 'nowadays' I was just referencing to the time I have lived so far and how I perceived it. Shouldn't have opened this discussion, it just distracts of the main point here. Glad @Galastel nailed it with her answer :-3
– Viktor Katzy
Sep 6 at 5:23
@Tom: Are you sure the difference is gender and not whether the lusted-after interest is someone who's sexualized themselves as a profession or as something they enjoy versus someone who's trying to go about their day or be treated equally as a professional in their (non-sexual) work environment? Chippendales are sex workers. I don't think it's considered dirty to take interest in sex workers, male or female, as long as you're acknowledging that it's their work and that they have boundaries like anyone else. What's diirty is doing that to your coworkers/classmates/etc.
– R..
Sep 6 at 21:55
add a comment
|
The problem I see is the double standard in sexualization. It seems much more acceptable nowadays for women to a have a lusty look on (attractive) men than the other way around. The cause for this might be the
still living cliché that men tend to only think this way while women 'just do it for fun'.
But this discussion is not the main point here. Personally I just strongly dislike sexualization of male or female in either way.
Describing the male view point I would make sure that lust is not the only thing the protagonist sees in his (physical) love interest. As long as he is not controlled by his sex drive there are plenty other things he recognizes on her and in her personality.
She always pins up her hair to a loose bun, revealing the skin of her neck. He tries not to constantly look, dissipating the thought of touching the soft skin behind her ear with his lips. But every time he regains control over his flittering thoughts, she smoothes some loose wisps back, catching his eyes with her secretive movements.
If you are able to show that his thoughts are more than
See woman, want sex
you should have no problem. It is indeed utterly impossible to not offend anyone. But if you write in a respectful manner, the only ones to be outraged will most probably be misandrics that aren't your target audience anyways.
The problem I see is the double standard in sexualization. It seems much more acceptable nowadays for women to a have a lusty look on (attractive) men than the other way around. The cause for this might be the
still living cliché that men tend to only think this way while women 'just do it for fun'.
But this discussion is not the main point here. Personally I just strongly dislike sexualization of male or female in either way.
Describing the male view point I would make sure that lust is not the only thing the protagonist sees in his (physical) love interest. As long as he is not controlled by his sex drive there are plenty other things he recognizes on her and in her personality.
She always pins up her hair to a loose bun, revealing the skin of her neck. He tries not to constantly look, dissipating the thought of touching the soft skin behind her ear with his lips. But every time he regains control over his flittering thoughts, she smoothes some loose wisps back, catching his eyes with her secretive movements.
If you are able to show that his thoughts are more than
See woman, want sex
you should have no problem. It is indeed utterly impossible to not offend anyone. But if you write in a respectful manner, the only ones to be outraged will most probably be misandrics that aren't your target audience anyways.
edited Sep 5 at 7:33
answered Sep 5 at 7:24
Viktor KatzyViktor Katzy
9421 silver badge13 bronze badges
9421 silver badge13 bronze badges
2
It has been ok for women for a long time to lust after men while the reverse is dirty. Compare the public image of the Chippendales with that of any female strip show. This is not a new development.
– Tom
Sep 6 at 5:15
Yeah, you've got a point there. With 'nowadays' I was just referencing to the time I have lived so far and how I perceived it. Shouldn't have opened this discussion, it just distracts of the main point here. Glad @Galastel nailed it with her answer :-3
– Viktor Katzy
Sep 6 at 5:23
@Tom: Are you sure the difference is gender and not whether the lusted-after interest is someone who's sexualized themselves as a profession or as something they enjoy versus someone who's trying to go about their day or be treated equally as a professional in their (non-sexual) work environment? Chippendales are sex workers. I don't think it's considered dirty to take interest in sex workers, male or female, as long as you're acknowledging that it's their work and that they have boundaries like anyone else. What's diirty is doing that to your coworkers/classmates/etc.
– R..
Sep 6 at 21:55
add a comment
|
2
It has been ok for women for a long time to lust after men while the reverse is dirty. Compare the public image of the Chippendales with that of any female strip show. This is not a new development.
– Tom
Sep 6 at 5:15
Yeah, you've got a point there. With 'nowadays' I was just referencing to the time I have lived so far and how I perceived it. Shouldn't have opened this discussion, it just distracts of the main point here. Glad @Galastel nailed it with her answer :-3
– Viktor Katzy
Sep 6 at 5:23
@Tom: Are you sure the difference is gender and not whether the lusted-after interest is someone who's sexualized themselves as a profession or as something they enjoy versus someone who's trying to go about their day or be treated equally as a professional in their (non-sexual) work environment? Chippendales are sex workers. I don't think it's considered dirty to take interest in sex workers, male or female, as long as you're acknowledging that it's their work and that they have boundaries like anyone else. What's diirty is doing that to your coworkers/classmates/etc.
– R..
Sep 6 at 21:55
2
2
It has been ok for women for a long time to lust after men while the reverse is dirty. Compare the public image of the Chippendales with that of any female strip show. This is not a new development.
– Tom
Sep 6 at 5:15
It has been ok for women for a long time to lust after men while the reverse is dirty. Compare the public image of the Chippendales with that of any female strip show. This is not a new development.
– Tom
Sep 6 at 5:15
Yeah, you've got a point there. With 'nowadays' I was just referencing to the time I have lived so far and how I perceived it. Shouldn't have opened this discussion, it just distracts of the main point here. Glad @Galastel nailed it with her answer :-3
– Viktor Katzy
Sep 6 at 5:23
Yeah, you've got a point there. With 'nowadays' I was just referencing to the time I have lived so far and how I perceived it. Shouldn't have opened this discussion, it just distracts of the main point here. Glad @Galastel nailed it with her answer :-3
– Viktor Katzy
Sep 6 at 5:23
@Tom: Are you sure the difference is gender and not whether the lusted-after interest is someone who's sexualized themselves as a profession or as something they enjoy versus someone who's trying to go about their day or be treated equally as a professional in their (non-sexual) work environment? Chippendales are sex workers. I don't think it's considered dirty to take interest in sex workers, male or female, as long as you're acknowledging that it's their work and that they have boundaries like anyone else. What's diirty is doing that to your coworkers/classmates/etc.
– R..
Sep 6 at 21:55
@Tom: Are you sure the difference is gender and not whether the lusted-after interest is someone who's sexualized themselves as a profession or as something they enjoy versus someone who's trying to go about their day or be treated equally as a professional in their (non-sexual) work environment? Chippendales are sex workers. I don't think it's considered dirty to take interest in sex workers, male or female, as long as you're acknowledging that it's their work and that they have boundaries like anyone else. What's diirty is doing that to your coworkers/classmates/etc.
– R..
Sep 6 at 21:55
add a comment
|
Borrow liberally from male-oriented (often Japanese) erotic literature.
It does exist, contrary to the assertion in the question; it's just heavily oriented towards nerds, as a result of its roots growing out from Japanese popular culture (e.g. manga, anime, and light novels). Many of the original Japanese works were even written by women - for instance, the ecchi harem manga Sekirei was written by a woman who was a fan of gay male romance stories, who ultimately decided that she wanted to make more money so she wrote a story about a guy who gets a harem of busty women.
add a comment
|
Borrow liberally from male-oriented (often Japanese) erotic literature.
It does exist, contrary to the assertion in the question; it's just heavily oriented towards nerds, as a result of its roots growing out from Japanese popular culture (e.g. manga, anime, and light novels). Many of the original Japanese works were even written by women - for instance, the ecchi harem manga Sekirei was written by a woman who was a fan of gay male romance stories, who ultimately decided that she wanted to make more money so she wrote a story about a guy who gets a harem of busty women.
add a comment
|
Borrow liberally from male-oriented (often Japanese) erotic literature.
It does exist, contrary to the assertion in the question; it's just heavily oriented towards nerds, as a result of its roots growing out from Japanese popular culture (e.g. manga, anime, and light novels). Many of the original Japanese works were even written by women - for instance, the ecchi harem manga Sekirei was written by a woman who was a fan of gay male romance stories, who ultimately decided that she wanted to make more money so she wrote a story about a guy who gets a harem of busty women.
Borrow liberally from male-oriented (often Japanese) erotic literature.
It does exist, contrary to the assertion in the question; it's just heavily oriented towards nerds, as a result of its roots growing out from Japanese popular culture (e.g. manga, anime, and light novels). Many of the original Japanese works were even written by women - for instance, the ecchi harem manga Sekirei was written by a woman who was a fan of gay male romance stories, who ultimately decided that she wanted to make more money so she wrote a story about a guy who gets a harem of busty women.
answered Sep 6 at 9:30
nick012000nick012000
3912 silver badges6 bronze badges
3912 silver badges6 bronze badges
add a comment
|
add a comment
|
Thanks for contributing an answer to Writing Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fwriting.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f47827%2fmale-viewpoint-in-an-erotic-novel%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
8
Male gaze and female gaze aren't inherently offensive, but the fact that the male gaze is ever-present and elevated in importance certainly is. But that has nothing to do with why erotic writing is from a female POV. It's because more women who like porn prefer it in written form (and don't call it porn) and more men prefer visuals. Not everyone obviously, but enough that the genres have developed accordingly.
– Cyn says make Monica whole♦
Sep 5 at 20:28
1
@Cyn I assume there's also the importance of many women writing relationship fiction in general, not just erotic novels. The vast majority of fan-fiction is written by women too. Somehow, "casual" writing became a "girlish" thing to do, perhaps originally associated with personal diaries. Reading also had a bit of a decline that hit boys harder (I had my share of being bullied for enjoying reading and writing).
– Luaan
Sep 6 at 7:27
I'm unclear on whether your intended audience is women or men?
– Weckar E.
Sep 6 at 15:00
@WeckarE. My question mentions "female readers".
– user41080
Sep 6 at 16:32
1
@user12011183 Okay. I suppose we will have to disagree on that. Thank you for the clarification.
– Weckar E.
Sep 6 at 16:48