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In What Way Would Cryomancy Affect the Food Eaten by Medieval People?



The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are InHow can enchanted items be explained?Sympathy: Give me the chills!Magic on an atomic level?The Magical British Government: Diplomatic EncountersHow could channeling spell be useful during battle?If people had magic powers, how would it affect slavery?Telekinetic MageHow would castle designs change in a world with magicWhat effect would a heat absorbing place have on climate?How to realistically implement magic-users in medieval warfare?










9












$begingroup$


Cryomancy is magic involving the removal of heat from an object by converting thermal energy into magical energy, thereby cooling the object. The conversion to magical energy is not perfect (some small amount of heat is released after removing it from the object or area of effect), however I do not believe this will affect your answers.



  • Food can be cooled from room temperature to just below freezing (30℉/-1℃).


  • Food can be magically maintained at the intended temperature indefinitely. This is done by enchanting the area around the food, not the food itself. The maximum area of effect is a radius of 15'/4.5m.


  • The effects of Cryomancy on food are similar to those produced by flash-freezing. Additionally, if it can be frozen via flash-freezing, it can also be frozen using Cryomancy.


Question: How would Cyromancy affect the eating habits of Medieval peoples?



  • Magic is unavailable to the average person, forcing the employment of mages (much like the average person today not having direct access to flash-freezing equipment). The majority of mages are of equivalent social status as a blacksmith.


  • For the purpose of this question, assume we're talking about London during the 1500’s










share|improve this question











$endgroup$





This question has an open bounty worth +50
reputation from Liam Morris ending ending at 2019-04-18 09:53:54Z">in 6 days.


This question has not received enough attention.















  • $begingroup$
    Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
    $endgroup$
    – L.Dutch
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    Isn't the 15th century right in the middle of the Renaissance?
    $endgroup$
    – Garret Gang
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    @GarretGang It depends on where you go, the Renaissance happened at different times for different countries. In England, it didn’t start until the late 1500’s, for convenience, its said to have started when the War of the Roses ended in 1485. The height of the Renaissance in England wasn’t until after the second half of the 16th century though.
    $endgroup$
    – Liam Morris
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    Well you have basically just invented a form of magic-powered refrigeration, so I would start with the real-life effects (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refrigeration).
    $endgroup$
    – K. Morgan
    yesterday















9












$begingroup$


Cryomancy is magic involving the removal of heat from an object by converting thermal energy into magical energy, thereby cooling the object. The conversion to magical energy is not perfect (some small amount of heat is released after removing it from the object or area of effect), however I do not believe this will affect your answers.



  • Food can be cooled from room temperature to just below freezing (30℉/-1℃).


  • Food can be magically maintained at the intended temperature indefinitely. This is done by enchanting the area around the food, not the food itself. The maximum area of effect is a radius of 15'/4.5m.


  • The effects of Cryomancy on food are similar to those produced by flash-freezing. Additionally, if it can be frozen via flash-freezing, it can also be frozen using Cryomancy.


Question: How would Cyromancy affect the eating habits of Medieval peoples?



  • Magic is unavailable to the average person, forcing the employment of mages (much like the average person today not having direct access to flash-freezing equipment). The majority of mages are of equivalent social status as a blacksmith.


  • For the purpose of this question, assume we're talking about London during the 1500’s










share|improve this question











$endgroup$





This question has an open bounty worth +50
reputation from Liam Morris ending ending at 2019-04-18 09:53:54Z">in 6 days.


This question has not received enough attention.















  • $begingroup$
    Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
    $endgroup$
    – L.Dutch
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    Isn't the 15th century right in the middle of the Renaissance?
    $endgroup$
    – Garret Gang
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    @GarretGang It depends on where you go, the Renaissance happened at different times for different countries. In England, it didn’t start until the late 1500’s, for convenience, its said to have started when the War of the Roses ended in 1485. The height of the Renaissance in England wasn’t until after the second half of the 16th century though.
    $endgroup$
    – Liam Morris
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    Well you have basically just invented a form of magic-powered refrigeration, so I would start with the real-life effects (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refrigeration).
    $endgroup$
    – K. Morgan
    yesterday













9












9








9


3



$begingroup$


Cryomancy is magic involving the removal of heat from an object by converting thermal energy into magical energy, thereby cooling the object. The conversion to magical energy is not perfect (some small amount of heat is released after removing it from the object or area of effect), however I do not believe this will affect your answers.



  • Food can be cooled from room temperature to just below freezing (30℉/-1℃).


  • Food can be magically maintained at the intended temperature indefinitely. This is done by enchanting the area around the food, not the food itself. The maximum area of effect is a radius of 15'/4.5m.


  • The effects of Cryomancy on food are similar to those produced by flash-freezing. Additionally, if it can be frozen via flash-freezing, it can also be frozen using Cryomancy.


Question: How would Cyromancy affect the eating habits of Medieval peoples?



  • Magic is unavailable to the average person, forcing the employment of mages (much like the average person today not having direct access to flash-freezing equipment). The majority of mages are of equivalent social status as a blacksmith.


  • For the purpose of this question, assume we're talking about London during the 1500’s










share|improve this question











$endgroup$




Cryomancy is magic involving the removal of heat from an object by converting thermal energy into magical energy, thereby cooling the object. The conversion to magical energy is not perfect (some small amount of heat is released after removing it from the object or area of effect), however I do not believe this will affect your answers.



  • Food can be cooled from room temperature to just below freezing (30℉/-1℃).


  • Food can be magically maintained at the intended temperature indefinitely. This is done by enchanting the area around the food, not the food itself. The maximum area of effect is a radius of 15'/4.5m.


  • The effects of Cryomancy on food are similar to those produced by flash-freezing. Additionally, if it can be frozen via flash-freezing, it can also be frozen using Cryomancy.


Question: How would Cyromancy affect the eating habits of Medieval peoples?



  • Magic is unavailable to the average person, forcing the employment of mages (much like the average person today not having direct access to flash-freezing equipment). The majority of mages are of equivalent social status as a blacksmith.


  • For the purpose of this question, assume we're talking about London during the 1500’s







magic medieval food cryogenics






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 2 days ago







Liam Morris

















asked 2 days ago









Liam MorrisLiam Morris

1,816426




1,816426






This question has an open bounty worth +50
reputation from Liam Morris ending ending at 2019-04-18 09:53:54Z">in 6 days.


This question has not received enough attention.








This question has an open bounty worth +50
reputation from Liam Morris ending ending at 2019-04-18 09:53:54Z">in 6 days.


This question has not received enough attention.













  • $begingroup$
    Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
    $endgroup$
    – L.Dutch
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    Isn't the 15th century right in the middle of the Renaissance?
    $endgroup$
    – Garret Gang
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    @GarretGang It depends on where you go, the Renaissance happened at different times for different countries. In England, it didn’t start until the late 1500’s, for convenience, its said to have started when the War of the Roses ended in 1485. The height of the Renaissance in England wasn’t until after the second half of the 16th century though.
    $endgroup$
    – Liam Morris
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    Well you have basically just invented a form of magic-powered refrigeration, so I would start with the real-life effects (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refrigeration).
    $endgroup$
    – K. Morgan
    yesterday
















  • $begingroup$
    Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
    $endgroup$
    – L.Dutch
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    Isn't the 15th century right in the middle of the Renaissance?
    $endgroup$
    – Garret Gang
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    @GarretGang It depends on where you go, the Renaissance happened at different times for different countries. In England, it didn’t start until the late 1500’s, for convenience, its said to have started when the War of the Roses ended in 1485. The height of the Renaissance in England wasn’t until after the second half of the 16th century though.
    $endgroup$
    – Liam Morris
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    Well you have basically just invented a form of magic-powered refrigeration, so I would start with the real-life effects (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refrigeration).
    $endgroup$
    – K. Morgan
    yesterday















$begingroup$
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
$endgroup$
– L.Dutch
2 days ago




$begingroup$
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
$endgroup$
– L.Dutch
2 days ago












$begingroup$
Isn't the 15th century right in the middle of the Renaissance?
$endgroup$
– Garret Gang
2 days ago




$begingroup$
Isn't the 15th century right in the middle of the Renaissance?
$endgroup$
– Garret Gang
2 days ago












$begingroup$
@GarretGang It depends on where you go, the Renaissance happened at different times for different countries. In England, it didn’t start until the late 1500’s, for convenience, its said to have started when the War of the Roses ended in 1485. The height of the Renaissance in England wasn’t until after the second half of the 16th century though.
$endgroup$
– Liam Morris
2 days ago




$begingroup$
@GarretGang It depends on where you go, the Renaissance happened at different times for different countries. In England, it didn’t start until the late 1500’s, for convenience, its said to have started when the War of the Roses ended in 1485. The height of the Renaissance in England wasn’t until after the second half of the 16th century though.
$endgroup$
– Liam Morris
2 days ago












$begingroup$
Well you have basically just invented a form of magic-powered refrigeration, so I would start with the real-life effects (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refrigeration).
$endgroup$
– K. Morgan
yesterday




$begingroup$
Well you have basically just invented a form of magic-powered refrigeration, so I would start with the real-life effects (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refrigeration).
$endgroup$
– K. Morgan
yesterday










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















11












$begingroup$

A few first ideas:



  • Food becomes less seasonal

  • Exotic food becomes available

  • Some diseases might become rarer because it is easier to provide a steady diet

  • Famines might be avoided

  • Icecream & cold drinks in Summer, of course

Maybe forget about food, what else can you conserve?! Dead bodies! Okay, also food in some
cases. But



  • Could also open up things like autopsies for crime investigation.

  • Plagues might be avoided by freezing areas where they develop. Or by generally advancing medicine.

  • Make hot places more habitable

  • If there is an area in the world where farming food is cheaper this might become a more economic trait since the food can be transported faster. The transport cost might however be the limiting factor here, reducing the impact.

Maybe the general impact is not that high because people already knew how to preserve many foods, of course now you can keep the strawberries without turning them into jam but that might not be worth paying a wizard. Depending on how rare they are.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




genesis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Will mages stoop to providing this service to the masses / can they get more money doing something else ~ this service might be too expensive for all but the richest, which means most of your ideas wouldn't happen.
    $endgroup$
    – Pelinore
    2 days ago







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @genesis : "Depends on the rest of the world" Yup, I sort of played around with this very same idea for D&D 1st edition many years ago with mages using Ice Wall (4th level spell) to fill ice houses & selling crushed ice from them in summer, their prices were far beyond most of the peasants.
    $endgroup$
    – Pelinore
    2 days ago







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    ^ accept for maybe the occasional small cup of crushed ice with fruit juice drizzled over it as a (very) special treat, the price for that was more than a days wages for the average peasant or common laborer in my world.
    $endgroup$
    – Pelinore
    2 days ago







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @genesis As i mentioned to Pelinore earlier, most mages are of equivalent social status as a skilled worker, such as a blacksmith, if that affects your answer at all.
    $endgroup$
    – Liam Morris
    2 days ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Salt will become a lot cheaper - it was very expensive because you can preserve food, especially meat, with salt.
    $endgroup$
    – Julian Egner
    yesterday


















4












$begingroup$

This is going to vary based on several factors - for example, how long do your enchanted cold-spaces last? Is this something that a Mage can cast on your Larder once per year, and you use it as a fridge for the next 12 months? Or, does it need to be renewed weekly?



In the former case, you would probably see "travelling Mages" moving from village to village throughout the year, spending a week or so renewing enchantments (private for the well-to-do, or communal spaces for poorer families to share) much like a merchant. In the latter case, nobles (or merchants and farming cooperatives) might keep a couple of mages on staff to ensure their perishables don't, well, perish.



Food storage and preservation is going to be the first big boon - 'fresh' milk, fruit or vegetables for more of the year, instead of cheeses, jams and chutneys. Meat could be kept for longer without salting, smoking or pickling. Both of these will improve the nutritional value of the food (or, rather, remove the requirement to reduce it for storage) and lead to people being healthier



Nobles might also start experimenting with frozen foods and deserts to show off their wealth - assuming that cryomancy was not too cheap or common.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    It would be closer to the former case in terms of how long it lasts. There is no fixed time the enchantment lasts for but i can easily see a mage going around and fixing broken enchantments. Frozen food is relatively cheap, more expensive than if it wasnt frozen but not hugely so. It would be somewhat common in cities or large towns but outside of them it would be rare. For example, in a small village you may only be able to access frozen food if a travelling merchant or circus passes nearby.
    $endgroup$
    – Liam Morris
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    "'fresh' milk" is why practically everyone used to keep their own goat (at one time) so probably not a lot of demand for frozen milk to start with, not while everyone still has their own goat ~ hire goblins to sneak in at night & steal (other) peoples goats until you have a monopoly on dairy products.
    $endgroup$
    – Pelinore
    2 days ago











  • $begingroup$
    @Pelinore For 10 months out of 12, sure...
    $endgroup$
    – Chronocidal
    2 days ago


















1












$begingroup$

You couldn't "Flash Freeze" at the temperatures you're talking about, in fact, at 30 degrees F, you might not even turn water into Ice (the specific heat of water is insanely high. This means that the change of state from liquid to gas or solid will take a long time and some extra energy. Ever have a soda from a cooler explode on you because it's frozen, but when you grabbed it, you could have sworn it was liquid? While it was below freezing, it maintained a liquid state because it hadn't be distubed... the depressurization of the gasses generated the specific heat energy to cause it to solidify and water is at it's most dense state as a liquid... the ice takes up extra space, which causes the fountain.).



That said, Ice was harvested by various methods as far back as the 1750 BCE! By the 16th century, it was a major export commodity of Saint Petersburg, Russia during the winter when the waters would freeze and it was not uncommon for wealthy people throughout Europe to keep Ice Houses to store snow and ice from their property. Alpine Nations and Scandinavian Countries also had Ice Harvesters (as depicted in Disney's Frozen. It was a real trade.).



Manufacturing of Ice was developed in the Americas and made it cheap enough to make proto-Fridges called "Ice Boxes" which would use the Ice to keep the insulated cabnit cool and it was, historically speaking, not that long ago that it existed (My Grandfather's parents were Ice Manufactures).






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    In reference to the first half of your answer, Cryomancy would not just ‘cool down’ the water (like if you put it in a cold place and waited for it to cool), the thermal energy contained within the water is being converted into ‘magical energy’. So essentially, the heat is being taken away from the water, bringing in down to 30°F/1°C in a matter of seconds. (Also, the number used in an arbitrary one, its just meant as a frame of reference and so the question is not too broad).
    $endgroup$
    – Liam Morris
    yesterday











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3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes








3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









11












$begingroup$

A few first ideas:



  • Food becomes less seasonal

  • Exotic food becomes available

  • Some diseases might become rarer because it is easier to provide a steady diet

  • Famines might be avoided

  • Icecream & cold drinks in Summer, of course

Maybe forget about food, what else can you conserve?! Dead bodies! Okay, also food in some
cases. But



  • Could also open up things like autopsies for crime investigation.

  • Plagues might be avoided by freezing areas where they develop. Or by generally advancing medicine.

  • Make hot places more habitable

  • If there is an area in the world where farming food is cheaper this might become a more economic trait since the food can be transported faster. The transport cost might however be the limiting factor here, reducing the impact.

Maybe the general impact is not that high because people already knew how to preserve many foods, of course now you can keep the strawberries without turning them into jam but that might not be worth paying a wizard. Depending on how rare they are.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




genesis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Will mages stoop to providing this service to the masses / can they get more money doing something else ~ this service might be too expensive for all but the richest, which means most of your ideas wouldn't happen.
    $endgroup$
    – Pelinore
    2 days ago







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @genesis : "Depends on the rest of the world" Yup, I sort of played around with this very same idea for D&D 1st edition many years ago with mages using Ice Wall (4th level spell) to fill ice houses & selling crushed ice from them in summer, their prices were far beyond most of the peasants.
    $endgroup$
    – Pelinore
    2 days ago







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    ^ accept for maybe the occasional small cup of crushed ice with fruit juice drizzled over it as a (very) special treat, the price for that was more than a days wages for the average peasant or common laborer in my world.
    $endgroup$
    – Pelinore
    2 days ago







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @genesis As i mentioned to Pelinore earlier, most mages are of equivalent social status as a skilled worker, such as a blacksmith, if that affects your answer at all.
    $endgroup$
    – Liam Morris
    2 days ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Salt will become a lot cheaper - it was very expensive because you can preserve food, especially meat, with salt.
    $endgroup$
    – Julian Egner
    yesterday















11












$begingroup$

A few first ideas:



  • Food becomes less seasonal

  • Exotic food becomes available

  • Some diseases might become rarer because it is easier to provide a steady diet

  • Famines might be avoided

  • Icecream & cold drinks in Summer, of course

Maybe forget about food, what else can you conserve?! Dead bodies! Okay, also food in some
cases. But



  • Could also open up things like autopsies for crime investigation.

  • Plagues might be avoided by freezing areas where they develop. Or by generally advancing medicine.

  • Make hot places more habitable

  • If there is an area in the world where farming food is cheaper this might become a more economic trait since the food can be transported faster. The transport cost might however be the limiting factor here, reducing the impact.

Maybe the general impact is not that high because people already knew how to preserve many foods, of course now you can keep the strawberries without turning them into jam but that might not be worth paying a wizard. Depending on how rare they are.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




genesis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Will mages stoop to providing this service to the masses / can they get more money doing something else ~ this service might be too expensive for all but the richest, which means most of your ideas wouldn't happen.
    $endgroup$
    – Pelinore
    2 days ago







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @genesis : "Depends on the rest of the world" Yup, I sort of played around with this very same idea for D&D 1st edition many years ago with mages using Ice Wall (4th level spell) to fill ice houses & selling crushed ice from them in summer, their prices were far beyond most of the peasants.
    $endgroup$
    – Pelinore
    2 days ago







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    ^ accept for maybe the occasional small cup of crushed ice with fruit juice drizzled over it as a (very) special treat, the price for that was more than a days wages for the average peasant or common laborer in my world.
    $endgroup$
    – Pelinore
    2 days ago







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @genesis As i mentioned to Pelinore earlier, most mages are of equivalent social status as a skilled worker, such as a blacksmith, if that affects your answer at all.
    $endgroup$
    – Liam Morris
    2 days ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Salt will become a lot cheaper - it was very expensive because you can preserve food, especially meat, with salt.
    $endgroup$
    – Julian Egner
    yesterday













11












11








11





$begingroup$

A few first ideas:



  • Food becomes less seasonal

  • Exotic food becomes available

  • Some diseases might become rarer because it is easier to provide a steady diet

  • Famines might be avoided

  • Icecream & cold drinks in Summer, of course

Maybe forget about food, what else can you conserve?! Dead bodies! Okay, also food in some
cases. But



  • Could also open up things like autopsies for crime investigation.

  • Plagues might be avoided by freezing areas where they develop. Or by generally advancing medicine.

  • Make hot places more habitable

  • If there is an area in the world where farming food is cheaper this might become a more economic trait since the food can be transported faster. The transport cost might however be the limiting factor here, reducing the impact.

Maybe the general impact is not that high because people already knew how to preserve many foods, of course now you can keep the strawberries without turning them into jam but that might not be worth paying a wizard. Depending on how rare they are.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




genesis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$



A few first ideas:



  • Food becomes less seasonal

  • Exotic food becomes available

  • Some diseases might become rarer because it is easier to provide a steady diet

  • Famines might be avoided

  • Icecream & cold drinks in Summer, of course

Maybe forget about food, what else can you conserve?! Dead bodies! Okay, also food in some
cases. But



  • Could also open up things like autopsies for crime investigation.

  • Plagues might be avoided by freezing areas where they develop. Or by generally advancing medicine.

  • Make hot places more habitable

  • If there is an area in the world where farming food is cheaper this might become a more economic trait since the food can be transported faster. The transport cost might however be the limiting factor here, reducing the impact.

Maybe the general impact is not that high because people already knew how to preserve many foods, of course now you can keep the strawberries without turning them into jam but that might not be worth paying a wizard. Depending on how rare they are.







share|improve this answer










New contributor




genesis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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share|improve this answer








edited yesterday





















New contributor




genesis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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answered 2 days ago









genesisgenesis

3015




3015




New contributor




genesis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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New contributor





genesis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






genesis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Will mages stoop to providing this service to the masses / can they get more money doing something else ~ this service might be too expensive for all but the richest, which means most of your ideas wouldn't happen.
    $endgroup$
    – Pelinore
    2 days ago







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @genesis : "Depends on the rest of the world" Yup, I sort of played around with this very same idea for D&D 1st edition many years ago with mages using Ice Wall (4th level spell) to fill ice houses & selling crushed ice from them in summer, their prices were far beyond most of the peasants.
    $endgroup$
    – Pelinore
    2 days ago







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    ^ accept for maybe the occasional small cup of crushed ice with fruit juice drizzled over it as a (very) special treat, the price for that was more than a days wages for the average peasant or common laborer in my world.
    $endgroup$
    – Pelinore
    2 days ago







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @genesis As i mentioned to Pelinore earlier, most mages are of equivalent social status as a skilled worker, such as a blacksmith, if that affects your answer at all.
    $endgroup$
    – Liam Morris
    2 days ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Salt will become a lot cheaper - it was very expensive because you can preserve food, especially meat, with salt.
    $endgroup$
    – Julian Egner
    yesterday












  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Will mages stoop to providing this service to the masses / can they get more money doing something else ~ this service might be too expensive for all but the richest, which means most of your ideas wouldn't happen.
    $endgroup$
    – Pelinore
    2 days ago







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @genesis : "Depends on the rest of the world" Yup, I sort of played around with this very same idea for D&D 1st edition many years ago with mages using Ice Wall (4th level spell) to fill ice houses & selling crushed ice from them in summer, their prices were far beyond most of the peasants.
    $endgroup$
    – Pelinore
    2 days ago







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    ^ accept for maybe the occasional small cup of crushed ice with fruit juice drizzled over it as a (very) special treat, the price for that was more than a days wages for the average peasant or common laborer in my world.
    $endgroup$
    – Pelinore
    2 days ago







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @genesis As i mentioned to Pelinore earlier, most mages are of equivalent social status as a skilled worker, such as a blacksmith, if that affects your answer at all.
    $endgroup$
    – Liam Morris
    2 days ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Salt will become a lot cheaper - it was very expensive because you can preserve food, especially meat, with salt.
    $endgroup$
    – Julian Egner
    yesterday







1




1




$begingroup$
Will mages stoop to providing this service to the masses / can they get more money doing something else ~ this service might be too expensive for all but the richest, which means most of your ideas wouldn't happen.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
2 days ago





$begingroup$
Will mages stoop to providing this service to the masses / can they get more money doing something else ~ this service might be too expensive for all but the richest, which means most of your ideas wouldn't happen.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
2 days ago





1




1




$begingroup$
@genesis : "Depends on the rest of the world" Yup, I sort of played around with this very same idea for D&D 1st edition many years ago with mages using Ice Wall (4th level spell) to fill ice houses & selling crushed ice from them in summer, their prices were far beyond most of the peasants.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
2 days ago





$begingroup$
@genesis : "Depends on the rest of the world" Yup, I sort of played around with this very same idea for D&D 1st edition many years ago with mages using Ice Wall (4th level spell) to fill ice houses & selling crushed ice from them in summer, their prices were far beyond most of the peasants.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
2 days ago





2




2




$begingroup$
^ accept for maybe the occasional small cup of crushed ice with fruit juice drizzled over it as a (very) special treat, the price for that was more than a days wages for the average peasant or common laborer in my world.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
2 days ago





$begingroup$
^ accept for maybe the occasional small cup of crushed ice with fruit juice drizzled over it as a (very) special treat, the price for that was more than a days wages for the average peasant or common laborer in my world.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
2 days ago





2




2




$begingroup$
@genesis As i mentioned to Pelinore earlier, most mages are of equivalent social status as a skilled worker, such as a blacksmith, if that affects your answer at all.
$endgroup$
– Liam Morris
2 days ago




$begingroup$
@genesis As i mentioned to Pelinore earlier, most mages are of equivalent social status as a skilled worker, such as a blacksmith, if that affects your answer at all.
$endgroup$
– Liam Morris
2 days ago




1




1




$begingroup$
Salt will become a lot cheaper - it was very expensive because you can preserve food, especially meat, with salt.
$endgroup$
– Julian Egner
yesterday




$begingroup$
Salt will become a lot cheaper - it was very expensive because you can preserve food, especially meat, with salt.
$endgroup$
– Julian Egner
yesterday











4












$begingroup$

This is going to vary based on several factors - for example, how long do your enchanted cold-spaces last? Is this something that a Mage can cast on your Larder once per year, and you use it as a fridge for the next 12 months? Or, does it need to be renewed weekly?



In the former case, you would probably see "travelling Mages" moving from village to village throughout the year, spending a week or so renewing enchantments (private for the well-to-do, or communal spaces for poorer families to share) much like a merchant. In the latter case, nobles (or merchants and farming cooperatives) might keep a couple of mages on staff to ensure their perishables don't, well, perish.



Food storage and preservation is going to be the first big boon - 'fresh' milk, fruit or vegetables for more of the year, instead of cheeses, jams and chutneys. Meat could be kept for longer without salting, smoking or pickling. Both of these will improve the nutritional value of the food (or, rather, remove the requirement to reduce it for storage) and lead to people being healthier



Nobles might also start experimenting with frozen foods and deserts to show off their wealth - assuming that cryomancy was not too cheap or common.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    It would be closer to the former case in terms of how long it lasts. There is no fixed time the enchantment lasts for but i can easily see a mage going around and fixing broken enchantments. Frozen food is relatively cheap, more expensive than if it wasnt frozen but not hugely so. It would be somewhat common in cities or large towns but outside of them it would be rare. For example, in a small village you may only be able to access frozen food if a travelling merchant or circus passes nearby.
    $endgroup$
    – Liam Morris
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    "'fresh' milk" is why practically everyone used to keep their own goat (at one time) so probably not a lot of demand for frozen milk to start with, not while everyone still has their own goat ~ hire goblins to sneak in at night & steal (other) peoples goats until you have a monopoly on dairy products.
    $endgroup$
    – Pelinore
    2 days ago











  • $begingroup$
    @Pelinore For 10 months out of 12, sure...
    $endgroup$
    – Chronocidal
    2 days ago















4












$begingroup$

This is going to vary based on several factors - for example, how long do your enchanted cold-spaces last? Is this something that a Mage can cast on your Larder once per year, and you use it as a fridge for the next 12 months? Or, does it need to be renewed weekly?



In the former case, you would probably see "travelling Mages" moving from village to village throughout the year, spending a week or so renewing enchantments (private for the well-to-do, or communal spaces for poorer families to share) much like a merchant. In the latter case, nobles (or merchants and farming cooperatives) might keep a couple of mages on staff to ensure their perishables don't, well, perish.



Food storage and preservation is going to be the first big boon - 'fresh' milk, fruit or vegetables for more of the year, instead of cheeses, jams and chutneys. Meat could be kept for longer without salting, smoking or pickling. Both of these will improve the nutritional value of the food (or, rather, remove the requirement to reduce it for storage) and lead to people being healthier



Nobles might also start experimenting with frozen foods and deserts to show off their wealth - assuming that cryomancy was not too cheap or common.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    It would be closer to the former case in terms of how long it lasts. There is no fixed time the enchantment lasts for but i can easily see a mage going around and fixing broken enchantments. Frozen food is relatively cheap, more expensive than if it wasnt frozen but not hugely so. It would be somewhat common in cities or large towns but outside of them it would be rare. For example, in a small village you may only be able to access frozen food if a travelling merchant or circus passes nearby.
    $endgroup$
    – Liam Morris
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    "'fresh' milk" is why practically everyone used to keep their own goat (at one time) so probably not a lot of demand for frozen milk to start with, not while everyone still has their own goat ~ hire goblins to sneak in at night & steal (other) peoples goats until you have a monopoly on dairy products.
    $endgroup$
    – Pelinore
    2 days ago











  • $begingroup$
    @Pelinore For 10 months out of 12, sure...
    $endgroup$
    – Chronocidal
    2 days ago













4












4








4





$begingroup$

This is going to vary based on several factors - for example, how long do your enchanted cold-spaces last? Is this something that a Mage can cast on your Larder once per year, and you use it as a fridge for the next 12 months? Or, does it need to be renewed weekly?



In the former case, you would probably see "travelling Mages" moving from village to village throughout the year, spending a week or so renewing enchantments (private for the well-to-do, or communal spaces for poorer families to share) much like a merchant. In the latter case, nobles (or merchants and farming cooperatives) might keep a couple of mages on staff to ensure their perishables don't, well, perish.



Food storage and preservation is going to be the first big boon - 'fresh' milk, fruit or vegetables for more of the year, instead of cheeses, jams and chutneys. Meat could be kept for longer without salting, smoking or pickling. Both of these will improve the nutritional value of the food (or, rather, remove the requirement to reduce it for storage) and lead to people being healthier



Nobles might also start experimenting with frozen foods and deserts to show off their wealth - assuming that cryomancy was not too cheap or common.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$



This is going to vary based on several factors - for example, how long do your enchanted cold-spaces last? Is this something that a Mage can cast on your Larder once per year, and you use it as a fridge for the next 12 months? Or, does it need to be renewed weekly?



In the former case, you would probably see "travelling Mages" moving from village to village throughout the year, spending a week or so renewing enchantments (private for the well-to-do, or communal spaces for poorer families to share) much like a merchant. In the latter case, nobles (or merchants and farming cooperatives) might keep a couple of mages on staff to ensure their perishables don't, well, perish.



Food storage and preservation is going to be the first big boon - 'fresh' milk, fruit or vegetables for more of the year, instead of cheeses, jams and chutneys. Meat could be kept for longer without salting, smoking or pickling. Both of these will improve the nutritional value of the food (or, rather, remove the requirement to reduce it for storage) and lead to people being healthier



Nobles might also start experimenting with frozen foods and deserts to show off their wealth - assuming that cryomancy was not too cheap or common.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 2 days ago









ChronocidalChronocidal

7,07211034




7,07211034











  • $begingroup$
    It would be closer to the former case in terms of how long it lasts. There is no fixed time the enchantment lasts for but i can easily see a mage going around and fixing broken enchantments. Frozen food is relatively cheap, more expensive than if it wasnt frozen but not hugely so. It would be somewhat common in cities or large towns but outside of them it would be rare. For example, in a small village you may only be able to access frozen food if a travelling merchant or circus passes nearby.
    $endgroup$
    – Liam Morris
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    "'fresh' milk" is why practically everyone used to keep their own goat (at one time) so probably not a lot of demand for frozen milk to start with, not while everyone still has their own goat ~ hire goblins to sneak in at night & steal (other) peoples goats until you have a monopoly on dairy products.
    $endgroup$
    – Pelinore
    2 days ago











  • $begingroup$
    @Pelinore For 10 months out of 12, sure...
    $endgroup$
    – Chronocidal
    2 days ago
















  • $begingroup$
    It would be closer to the former case in terms of how long it lasts. There is no fixed time the enchantment lasts for but i can easily see a mage going around and fixing broken enchantments. Frozen food is relatively cheap, more expensive than if it wasnt frozen but not hugely so. It would be somewhat common in cities or large towns but outside of them it would be rare. For example, in a small village you may only be able to access frozen food if a travelling merchant or circus passes nearby.
    $endgroup$
    – Liam Morris
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    "'fresh' milk" is why practically everyone used to keep their own goat (at one time) so probably not a lot of demand for frozen milk to start with, not while everyone still has their own goat ~ hire goblins to sneak in at night & steal (other) peoples goats until you have a monopoly on dairy products.
    $endgroup$
    – Pelinore
    2 days ago











  • $begingroup$
    @Pelinore For 10 months out of 12, sure...
    $endgroup$
    – Chronocidal
    2 days ago















$begingroup$
It would be closer to the former case in terms of how long it lasts. There is no fixed time the enchantment lasts for but i can easily see a mage going around and fixing broken enchantments. Frozen food is relatively cheap, more expensive than if it wasnt frozen but not hugely so. It would be somewhat common in cities or large towns but outside of them it would be rare. For example, in a small village you may only be able to access frozen food if a travelling merchant or circus passes nearby.
$endgroup$
– Liam Morris
2 days ago




$begingroup$
It would be closer to the former case in terms of how long it lasts. There is no fixed time the enchantment lasts for but i can easily see a mage going around and fixing broken enchantments. Frozen food is relatively cheap, more expensive than if it wasnt frozen but not hugely so. It would be somewhat common in cities or large towns but outside of them it would be rare. For example, in a small village you may only be able to access frozen food if a travelling merchant or circus passes nearby.
$endgroup$
– Liam Morris
2 days ago












$begingroup$
"'fresh' milk" is why practically everyone used to keep their own goat (at one time) so probably not a lot of demand for frozen milk to start with, not while everyone still has their own goat ~ hire goblins to sneak in at night & steal (other) peoples goats until you have a monopoly on dairy products.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
2 days ago





$begingroup$
"'fresh' milk" is why practically everyone used to keep their own goat (at one time) so probably not a lot of demand for frozen milk to start with, not while everyone still has their own goat ~ hire goblins to sneak in at night & steal (other) peoples goats until you have a monopoly on dairy products.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
2 days ago













$begingroup$
@Pelinore For 10 months out of 12, sure...
$endgroup$
– Chronocidal
2 days ago




$begingroup$
@Pelinore For 10 months out of 12, sure...
$endgroup$
– Chronocidal
2 days ago











1












$begingroup$

You couldn't "Flash Freeze" at the temperatures you're talking about, in fact, at 30 degrees F, you might not even turn water into Ice (the specific heat of water is insanely high. This means that the change of state from liquid to gas or solid will take a long time and some extra energy. Ever have a soda from a cooler explode on you because it's frozen, but when you grabbed it, you could have sworn it was liquid? While it was below freezing, it maintained a liquid state because it hadn't be distubed... the depressurization of the gasses generated the specific heat energy to cause it to solidify and water is at it's most dense state as a liquid... the ice takes up extra space, which causes the fountain.).



That said, Ice was harvested by various methods as far back as the 1750 BCE! By the 16th century, it was a major export commodity of Saint Petersburg, Russia during the winter when the waters would freeze and it was not uncommon for wealthy people throughout Europe to keep Ice Houses to store snow and ice from their property. Alpine Nations and Scandinavian Countries also had Ice Harvesters (as depicted in Disney's Frozen. It was a real trade.).



Manufacturing of Ice was developed in the Americas and made it cheap enough to make proto-Fridges called "Ice Boxes" which would use the Ice to keep the insulated cabnit cool and it was, historically speaking, not that long ago that it existed (My Grandfather's parents were Ice Manufactures).






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    In reference to the first half of your answer, Cryomancy would not just ‘cool down’ the water (like if you put it in a cold place and waited for it to cool), the thermal energy contained within the water is being converted into ‘magical energy’. So essentially, the heat is being taken away from the water, bringing in down to 30°F/1°C in a matter of seconds. (Also, the number used in an arbitrary one, its just meant as a frame of reference and so the question is not too broad).
    $endgroup$
    – Liam Morris
    yesterday















1












$begingroup$

You couldn't "Flash Freeze" at the temperatures you're talking about, in fact, at 30 degrees F, you might not even turn water into Ice (the specific heat of water is insanely high. This means that the change of state from liquid to gas or solid will take a long time and some extra energy. Ever have a soda from a cooler explode on you because it's frozen, but when you grabbed it, you could have sworn it was liquid? While it was below freezing, it maintained a liquid state because it hadn't be distubed... the depressurization of the gasses generated the specific heat energy to cause it to solidify and water is at it's most dense state as a liquid... the ice takes up extra space, which causes the fountain.).



That said, Ice was harvested by various methods as far back as the 1750 BCE! By the 16th century, it was a major export commodity of Saint Petersburg, Russia during the winter when the waters would freeze and it was not uncommon for wealthy people throughout Europe to keep Ice Houses to store snow and ice from their property. Alpine Nations and Scandinavian Countries also had Ice Harvesters (as depicted in Disney's Frozen. It was a real trade.).



Manufacturing of Ice was developed in the Americas and made it cheap enough to make proto-Fridges called "Ice Boxes" which would use the Ice to keep the insulated cabnit cool and it was, historically speaking, not that long ago that it existed (My Grandfather's parents were Ice Manufactures).






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    In reference to the first half of your answer, Cryomancy would not just ‘cool down’ the water (like if you put it in a cold place and waited for it to cool), the thermal energy contained within the water is being converted into ‘magical energy’. So essentially, the heat is being taken away from the water, bringing in down to 30°F/1°C in a matter of seconds. (Also, the number used in an arbitrary one, its just meant as a frame of reference and so the question is not too broad).
    $endgroup$
    – Liam Morris
    yesterday













1












1








1





$begingroup$

You couldn't "Flash Freeze" at the temperatures you're talking about, in fact, at 30 degrees F, you might not even turn water into Ice (the specific heat of water is insanely high. This means that the change of state from liquid to gas or solid will take a long time and some extra energy. Ever have a soda from a cooler explode on you because it's frozen, but when you grabbed it, you could have sworn it was liquid? While it was below freezing, it maintained a liquid state because it hadn't be distubed... the depressurization of the gasses generated the specific heat energy to cause it to solidify and water is at it's most dense state as a liquid... the ice takes up extra space, which causes the fountain.).



That said, Ice was harvested by various methods as far back as the 1750 BCE! By the 16th century, it was a major export commodity of Saint Petersburg, Russia during the winter when the waters would freeze and it was not uncommon for wealthy people throughout Europe to keep Ice Houses to store snow and ice from their property. Alpine Nations and Scandinavian Countries also had Ice Harvesters (as depicted in Disney's Frozen. It was a real trade.).



Manufacturing of Ice was developed in the Americas and made it cheap enough to make proto-Fridges called "Ice Boxes" which would use the Ice to keep the insulated cabnit cool and it was, historically speaking, not that long ago that it existed (My Grandfather's parents were Ice Manufactures).






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$



You couldn't "Flash Freeze" at the temperatures you're talking about, in fact, at 30 degrees F, you might not even turn water into Ice (the specific heat of water is insanely high. This means that the change of state from liquid to gas or solid will take a long time and some extra energy. Ever have a soda from a cooler explode on you because it's frozen, but when you grabbed it, you could have sworn it was liquid? While it was below freezing, it maintained a liquid state because it hadn't be distubed... the depressurization of the gasses generated the specific heat energy to cause it to solidify and water is at it's most dense state as a liquid... the ice takes up extra space, which causes the fountain.).



That said, Ice was harvested by various methods as far back as the 1750 BCE! By the 16th century, it was a major export commodity of Saint Petersburg, Russia during the winter when the waters would freeze and it was not uncommon for wealthy people throughout Europe to keep Ice Houses to store snow and ice from their property. Alpine Nations and Scandinavian Countries also had Ice Harvesters (as depicted in Disney's Frozen. It was a real trade.).



Manufacturing of Ice was developed in the Americas and made it cheap enough to make proto-Fridges called "Ice Boxes" which would use the Ice to keep the insulated cabnit cool and it was, historically speaking, not that long ago that it existed (My Grandfather's parents were Ice Manufactures).







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered yesterday









hszmvhszmv

5,067517




5,067517











  • $begingroup$
    In reference to the first half of your answer, Cryomancy would not just ‘cool down’ the water (like if you put it in a cold place and waited for it to cool), the thermal energy contained within the water is being converted into ‘magical energy’. So essentially, the heat is being taken away from the water, bringing in down to 30°F/1°C in a matter of seconds. (Also, the number used in an arbitrary one, its just meant as a frame of reference and so the question is not too broad).
    $endgroup$
    – Liam Morris
    yesterday
















  • $begingroup$
    In reference to the first half of your answer, Cryomancy would not just ‘cool down’ the water (like if you put it in a cold place and waited for it to cool), the thermal energy contained within the water is being converted into ‘magical energy’. So essentially, the heat is being taken away from the water, bringing in down to 30°F/1°C in a matter of seconds. (Also, the number used in an arbitrary one, its just meant as a frame of reference and so the question is not too broad).
    $endgroup$
    – Liam Morris
    yesterday















$begingroup$
In reference to the first half of your answer, Cryomancy would not just ‘cool down’ the water (like if you put it in a cold place and waited for it to cool), the thermal energy contained within the water is being converted into ‘magical energy’. So essentially, the heat is being taken away from the water, bringing in down to 30°F/1°C in a matter of seconds. (Also, the number used in an arbitrary one, its just meant as a frame of reference and so the question is not too broad).
$endgroup$
– Liam Morris
yesterday




$begingroup$
In reference to the first half of your answer, Cryomancy would not just ‘cool down’ the water (like if you put it in a cold place and waited for it to cool), the thermal energy contained within the water is being converted into ‘magical energy’. So essentially, the heat is being taken away from the water, bringing in down to 30°F/1°C in a matter of seconds. (Also, the number used in an arbitrary one, its just meant as a frame of reference and so the question is not too broad).
$endgroup$
– Liam Morris
yesterday

















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