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How to say no to more work as a PhD student so I can graduate
PhD supervisor making me do a LOT of non PhD workCan a PhD student transfer to another graduate school after advancing to candidacy?What, if anything, obligates a student to work with an advisor who lobbied for him/her to get funding?How can a new PhD Student objectively evaluate how well they are doing?Is it appropriate for a graduate student to ask faculty whether they would like assistance in writing a grant?Can you be a good PhD student if you hate reading literature?What to do with PhD advisor who does not revise journal manuscriptLess desirable graduate school vs. more undergradHow should an advisor handle an underperforming PhD student?I am studying at a university where only one faculty member speaks the same language as me. How can I get 3 recommendation letters?
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I am entering my 5th year as a PhD student. The "understanding" with my advisor is that I need three journal papers accepted to graduate. I think I have enough material (designs/ measurements/ analysis) to write the three papers now, but so far have only written one. In a normal situation, my next step would be to write the other two papers.
The issue is that my advisor received more short-term funding for my project, and he plans to ask me to do one more "design" before the grant expires. This "design" will extend my PhD by 1.5 years at the very least and I will have to delay my paper-writing to meet the incredibly ridiculous deadline associated with the short grant and design deadline.
Naturally, my advisor being who he is, he will use the fact that I do not have the three papers to impose more work on me instead of allowing me to actually write the papers I need. He does not have a problem hitting the maximum duration allowed by the Institute to keep a PhD student (6-7 years), even when the student has done enough.
This is further complicated by the fact that my advisor lacks experience in my specific field and only understand that "more designs = more papers".
I need advice on how to address this. How can I make a compelling case that I have done enough and I just need to focus on publishing so that I can graduate? I would really appreciate realistic advice.
Note: My advisor is very powerful in the department. This makes approaching the department unrealistic. I will be on the losing side if I approach the department. I am in a North American Institute.
phd graduate-school advisor
edited Jul 17 at 16:18
smci
1,59010 silver badges18 bronze badges
asked Jul 16 at 0:35
user18244user18244
3,6893 gold badges21 silver badges43 bronze badges
add a comment
|
I am entering my 5th year as a PhD student. The "understanding" with my advisor is that I need three journal papers accepted to graduate. I think I have enough material (designs/ measurements/ analysis) to write the three papers now, but so far have only written one. In a normal situation, my next step would be to write the other two papers.
The issue is that my advisor received more short-term funding for my project, and he plans to ask me to do one more "design" before the grant expires. This "design" will extend my PhD by 1.5 years at the very least and I will have to delay my paper-writing to meet the incredibly ridiculous deadline associated with the short grant and design deadline.
Naturally, my advisor being who he is, he will use the fact that I do not have the three papers to impose more work on me instead of allowing me to actually write the papers I need. He does not have a problem hitting the maximum duration allowed by the Institute to keep a PhD student (6-7 years), even when the student has done enough.
This is further complicated by the fact that my advisor lacks experience in my specific field and only understand that "more designs = more papers".
I need advice on how to address this. How can I make a compelling case that I have done enough and I just need to focus on publishing so that I can graduate? I would really appreciate realistic advice.
Note: My advisor is very powerful in the department. This makes approaching the department unrealistic. I will be on the losing side if I approach the department. I am in a North American Institute.
phd graduate-school advisor
edited Jul 17 at 16:18
smci
1,59010 silver badges18 bronze badges
asked Jul 16 at 0:35
user18244user18244
3,6893 gold badges21 silver badges43 bronze badges
1
a) Assuming you are on a (student) F-visa, and thus tied to these guys, correct? b) what happens when you hit the maximum duration allowed by the Institute to keep a PhD student (6-7 years), do you flunk out having been his cash cow? c) What is this advisor's and dept's track record on PhD students: how do students actually manage to graduate? d) Best solution I've seen is you calculate how many full days a week you'll work on papers (2? 3? 4? 5 even?) then tell them that's what you need to do to graduate, stand firm, mention the working hours of other current and previous PhD students.
– smci
Jul 17 at 15:50
a) I am tied to these guys due to funding, not a visa. I receive funding from my professor for being an RA b) The institute will not allow me to register and I will have to wrap up and graduate. c) He keeps students for 6 and 6.5 years. Longer than other professors in the department. Usually, students get in a fight to force graduation and end in bad terms with my advisor. D) Yes, I agree. I decided to draft a timeline with milestones, publication plan, and then talk to him about it. I want things to end on good terms with him so I will try to reach a good middle ground.
– user18244
Jul 17 at 22:05
c) An advisor like that is guaranteed to end up on bad terms, take that as given, esp. if he's been acting like this for years. d) So what happens if you simply say "I am only available 1 day a week, I will be writing my thesis the other 6", stand firm, document it, do not back down? Yes you must draft a timeline for protecting your own productivity; sandbag it a little too. a) Good, so you're not totally at his mercy. Whatever happens, start your thesis today, and do whatever you need to do to prevent all interruptions 6 day a week (e.g. work from library, with phone/messaging/email cut off).
– smci
Jul 17 at 22:14
add a comment
|
I am entering my 5th year as a PhD student. The "understanding" with my advisor is that I need three journal papers accepted to graduate. I think I have enough material (designs/ measurements/ analysis) to write the three papers now, but so far have only written one. In a normal situation, my next step would be to write the other two papers.
The issue is that my advisor received more short-term funding for my project, and he plans to ask me to do one more "design" before the grant expires. This "design" will extend my PhD by 1.5 years at the very least and I will have to delay my paper-writing to meet the incredibly ridiculous deadline associated with the short grant and design deadline.
Naturally, my advisor being who he is, he will use the fact that I do not have the three papers to impose more work on me instead of allowing me to actually write the papers I need. He does not have a problem hitting the maximum duration allowed by the Institute to keep a PhD student (6-7 years), even when the student has done enough.
This is further complicated by the fact that my advisor lacks experience in my specific field and only understand that "more designs = more papers".
I need advice on how to address this. How can I make a compelling case that I have done enough and I just need to focus on publishing so that I can graduate? I would really appreciate realistic advice.
Note: My advisor is very powerful in the department. This makes approaching the department unrealistic. I will be on the losing side if I approach the department. I am in a North American Institute.
phd graduate-school advisor
edited Jul 17 at 16:18
smci
1,59010 silver badges18 bronze badges
asked Jul 16 at 0:35
user18244user18244
3,6893 gold badges21 silver badges43 bronze badges
I am entering my 5th year as a PhD student. The "understanding" with my advisor is that I need three journal papers accepted to graduate. I think I have enough material (designs/ measurements/ analysis) to write the three papers now, but so far have only written one. In a normal situation, my next step would be to write the other two papers.
The issue is that my advisor received more short-term funding for my project, and he plans to ask me to do one more "design" before the grant expires. This "design" will extend my PhD by 1.5 years at the very least and I will have to delay my paper-writing to meet the incredibly ridiculous deadline associated with the short grant and design deadline.
Naturally, my advisor being who he is, he will use the fact that I do not have the three papers to impose more work on me instead of allowing me to actually write the papers I need. He does not have a problem hitting the maximum duration allowed by the Institute to keep a PhD student (6-7 years), even when the student has done enough.
This is further complicated by the fact that my advisor lacks experience in my specific field and only understand that "more designs = more papers".
I need advice on how to address this. How can I make a compelling case that I have done enough and I just need to focus on publishing so that I can graduate? I would really appreciate realistic advice.
Note: My advisor is very powerful in the department. This makes approaching the department unrealistic. I will be on the losing side if I approach the department. I am in a North American Institute.
phd graduate-school advisor
phd graduate-school advisor
edited Jul 17 at 16:18
smci
1,59010 silver badges18 bronze badges
asked Jul 16 at 0:35
user18244user18244
3,6893 gold badges21 silver badges43 bronze badges
edited Jul 17 at 16:18
smci
1,59010 silver badges18 bronze badges
asked Jul 16 at 0:35
user18244user18244
3,6893 gold badges21 silver badges43 bronze badges
edited Jul 17 at 16:18
smci
1,59010 silver badges18 bronze badges
edited Jul 17 at 16:18
smci
1,59010 silver badges18 bronze badges
edited Jul 17 at 16:18
smci
1,59010 silver badges18 bronze badges
1,59010 silver badges18 bronze badges
asked Jul 16 at 0:35
user18244user18244
3,6893 gold badges21 silver badges43 bronze badges
asked Jul 16 at 0:35
user18244user18244
3,6893 gold badges21 silver badges43 bronze badges
asked Jul 16 at 0:35
user18244user18244
3,6893 gold badges21 silver badges43 bronze badges
3,6893 gold badges21 silver badges43 bronze badges
1
a) Assuming you are on a (student) F-visa, and thus tied to these guys, correct? b) what happens when you hit the maximum duration allowed by the Institute to keep a PhD student (6-7 years), do you flunk out having been his cash cow? c) What is this advisor's and dept's track record on PhD students: how do students actually manage to graduate? d) Best solution I've seen is you calculate how many full days a week you'll work on papers (2? 3? 4? 5 even?) then tell them that's what you need to do to graduate, stand firm, mention the working hours of other current and previous PhD students.
– smci
Jul 17 at 15:50
a) I am tied to these guys due to funding, not a visa. I receive funding from my professor for being an RA b) The institute will not allow me to register and I will have to wrap up and graduate. c) He keeps students for 6 and 6.5 years. Longer than other professors in the department. Usually, students get in a fight to force graduation and end in bad terms with my advisor. D) Yes, I agree. I decided to draft a timeline with milestones, publication plan, and then talk to him about it. I want things to end on good terms with him so I will try to reach a good middle ground.
– user18244
Jul 17 at 22:05
c) An advisor like that is guaranteed to end up on bad terms, take that as given, esp. if he's been acting like this for years. d) So what happens if you simply say "I am only available 1 day a week, I will be writing my thesis the other 6", stand firm, document it, do not back down? Yes you must draft a timeline for protecting your own productivity; sandbag it a little too. a) Good, so you're not totally at his mercy. Whatever happens, start your thesis today, and do whatever you need to do to prevent all interruptions 6 day a week (e.g. work from library, with phone/messaging/email cut off).
– smci
Jul 17 at 22:14
add a comment
|
1
a) Assuming you are on a (student) F-visa, and thus tied to these guys, correct? b) what happens when you hit the maximum duration allowed by the Institute to keep a PhD student (6-7 years), do you flunk out having been his cash cow? c) What is this advisor's and dept's track record on PhD students: how do students actually manage to graduate? d) Best solution I've seen is you calculate how many full days a week you'll work on papers (2? 3? 4? 5 even?) then tell them that's what you need to do to graduate, stand firm, mention the working hours of other current and previous PhD students.
– smci
Jul 17 at 15:50
a) I am tied to these guys due to funding, not a visa. I receive funding from my professor for being an RA b) The institute will not allow me to register and I will have to wrap up and graduate. c) He keeps students for 6 and 6.5 years. Longer than other professors in the department. Usually, students get in a fight to force graduation and end in bad terms with my advisor. D) Yes, I agree. I decided to draft a timeline with milestones, publication plan, and then talk to him about it. I want things to end on good terms with him so I will try to reach a good middle ground.
– user18244
Jul 17 at 22:05
c) An advisor like that is guaranteed to end up on bad terms, take that as given, esp. if he's been acting like this for years. d) So what happens if you simply say "I am only available 1 day a week, I will be writing my thesis the other 6", stand firm, document it, do not back down? Yes you must draft a timeline for protecting your own productivity; sandbag it a little too. a) Good, so you're not totally at his mercy. Whatever happens, start your thesis today, and do whatever you need to do to prevent all interruptions 6 day a week (e.g. work from library, with phone/messaging/email cut off).
– smci
Jul 17 at 22:14
1
1
a) Assuming you are on a (student) F-visa, and thus tied to these guys, correct? b) what happens when you hit the maximum duration allowed by the Institute to keep a PhD student (6-7 years), do you flunk out having been his cash cow? c) What is this advisor's and dept's track record on PhD students: how do students actually manage to graduate? d) Best solution I've seen is you calculate how many full days a week you'll work on papers (2? 3? 4? 5 even?) then tell them that's what you need to do to graduate, stand firm, mention the working hours of other current and previous PhD students.
– smci
Jul 17 at 15:50
a) Assuming you are on a (student) F-visa, and thus tied to these guys, correct? b) what happens when you hit the maximum duration allowed by the Institute to keep a PhD student (6-7 years), do you flunk out having been his cash cow? c) What is this advisor's and dept's track record on PhD students: how do students actually manage to graduate? d) Best solution I've seen is you calculate how many full days a week you'll work on papers (2? 3? 4? 5 even?) then tell them that's what you need to do to graduate, stand firm, mention the working hours of other current and previous PhD students.
– smci
Jul 17 at 15:50
a) I am tied to these guys due to funding, not a visa. I receive funding from my professor for being an RA b) The institute will not allow me to register and I will have to wrap up and graduate. c) He keeps students for 6 and 6.5 years. Longer than other professors in the department. Usually, students get in a fight to force graduation and end in bad terms with my advisor. D) Yes, I agree. I decided to draft a timeline with milestones, publication plan, and then talk to him about it. I want things to end on good terms with him so I will try to reach a good middle ground.
– user18244
Jul 17 at 22:05
a) I am tied to these guys due to funding, not a visa. I receive funding from my professor for being an RA b) The institute will not allow me to register and I will have to wrap up and graduate. c) He keeps students for 6 and 6.5 years. Longer than other professors in the department. Usually, students get in a fight to force graduation and end in bad terms with my advisor. D) Yes, I agree. I decided to draft a timeline with milestones, publication plan, and then talk to him about it. I want things to end on good terms with him so I will try to reach a good middle ground.
– user18244
Jul 17 at 22:05
c) An advisor like that is guaranteed to end up on bad terms, take that as given, esp. if he's been acting like this for years. d) So what happens if you simply say "I am only available 1 day a week, I will be writing my thesis the other 6", stand firm, document it, do not back down? Yes you must draft a timeline for protecting your own productivity; sandbag it a little too. a) Good, so you're not totally at his mercy. Whatever happens, start your thesis today, and do whatever you need to do to prevent all interruptions 6 day a week (e.g. work from library, with phone/messaging/email cut off).
– smci
Jul 17 at 22:14
c) An advisor like that is guaranteed to end up on bad terms, take that as given, esp. if he's been acting like this for years. d) So what happens if you simply say "I am only available 1 day a week, I will be writing my thesis the other 6", stand firm, document it, do not back down? Yes you must draft a timeline for protecting your own productivity; sandbag it a little too. a) Good, so you're not totally at his mercy. Whatever happens, start your thesis today, and do whatever you need to do to prevent all interruptions 6 day a week (e.g. work from library, with phone/messaging/email cut off).
– smci
Jul 17 at 22:14
add a comment
|
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
I think your most realistic option is to have an honest discussion with your advisor about your goals and expectations.
Tell them that you’d like to graduate by 20xx, and you think your work on A B C was fulfilling and interesting. You feel like you can really build a narrative around these projects that would culminate in a good thesis within the timeframe set above. Given your goal, you feel like starting a new project at this time will be detrimental to your progress.
Ideally your advisor would totally see it your way and you’ll graduate into the sunset. Realistically: advisors tend to be overzealous at times and can exert a lot of pressure over their students. A reasonable advisor would leave the choice to you; a clever one will make you believe that it’s a really good idea to start this new project (you don’t have enough material now, your CV will be amazing with the new project accomplished...). So a lot of this depends on the dynamics you have with your advisor.
I would not go over their head unless you’re willing and able to switch advisors. Its hard to get back to a good working relationship after something like that.
I will try to establish my own independence and capacity to successfully graduate with a plan (by 20yy I plan to submit these results, draft by Jan 20zz and so on).
Good luck!
answered Jul 16 at 1:08
SparkSpark
14.4k8 gold badges31 silver badges53 bronze badges
7
(+1) This is the right answer, but the sad truth is that the probability that it works (i.e., PI complies) is very field dependent due to grant structures. My PhD is statistics I don't think I've met a stats professor for which this conversation wouldn't work. My wife's is biology and in that field, since professorships live and die by grants approved, I'd guess 50-50 odds of working.
– Cliff AB
Jul 16 at 15:20
2
Thanks for the detailed answer. I will try to have "the graduation talk" with my advisor. I hope it works.
– user18244
Jul 16 at 17:05
2
@user18244, good luck!
– Spark
Jul 17 at 7:42
add a comment
|
Lots of good advice in @Spark's answer. I would add that you might suggest mentoring an new student to take over the project when you are gone. You can advise them on the design while you focus on writing your last two papers. This is a reasonably common practice, at least in the fields I have worked in. This should have a number of advantages from all perspectives:
- Your adviser will get your help training the new student to take over which means they will have 5 more years of work on the project rather than just the 1.5 they can get from you.
- It takes the burden of the new project off your shoulders while still providing a mechanism for the work to get done.
- If it isn't worth your adviser's efforts to recruit a new student for the project, then it shouldn't be worth your time either. Making your adviser have to make the first effort toward moving the project forward will demonstrate how much they really care about making it happen.
- By helping the new student, you might be able to get your name on some of their papers even after you graduate.
answered Jul 16 at 23:40
BarkerBarker
1,5533 silver badges13 bronze badges
Thanks a lot for the input! I would be more than willing to mentor some students to take over if my advisor agrees to let me off the hook.
– user18244
Jul 16 at 23:59
add a comment
|
Adding on to Sparks answer, it would be helpful to provide context to your planned graduation date. A reason to graduate by a certain date presented with reasoning from a different angle makes it more difficult for the professor to counter argue.
Drawing reasons for example from:
Family - presence needed, marriage or impending split/divorce, pregnancy or desire to get pregnant by a certain age due to fertility
Work - money needed, job offer, etc
Visa - although this is specific to your case
Relocation - plan to move elsewhere for some reason or another
Whether you actually are going to carry through with the reasoning and how truthful the reasoning is up to you. Just try not to be blatantly false that you'll get caught
answered Jul 16 at 10:24
Emmanuel AdornaEmmanuel Adorna
411 bronze badge
11
"Because reasons" can be a dangerous approach here. From the student's side, this is a bait and switch. "I thought I was done, and I would like to finish up", without explanation, is the approach to take.
– Scott Seidman
Jul 16 at 12:05
3
I agree with Scott. As an advisor, It’s really none of my business why one would want to graduate at a certain time. I may gently ask (to establish a sense of the urgency), but would not expect it.
– Spark
Jul 16 at 12:45
Might be worth seeing if you can infer the advisor's potential reaction from prior grad students' experiences.
– Nat
Jul 17 at 1:36
While it isn’t the advisor’s business why a student would want to graduate on a certain date, it is the advisor’s business to push for completion of his design and improvement of his project. Student should come prepared to counter the advisor’s arguments particularly if the advisor is adamant that student is not done yet
– Emmanuel Adorna
Jul 17 at 13:23
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
I think your most realistic option is to have an honest discussion with your advisor about your goals and expectations.
Tell them that you’d like to graduate by 20xx, and you think your work on A B C was fulfilling and interesting. You feel like you can really build a narrative around these projects that would culminate in a good thesis within the timeframe set above. Given your goal, you feel like starting a new project at this time will be detrimental to your progress.
Ideally your advisor would totally see it your way and you’ll graduate into the sunset. Realistically: advisors tend to be overzealous at times and can exert a lot of pressure over their students. A reasonable advisor would leave the choice to you; a clever one will make you believe that it’s a really good idea to start this new project (you don’t have enough material now, your CV will be amazing with the new project accomplished...). So a lot of this depends on the dynamics you have with your advisor.
I would not go over their head unless you’re willing and able to switch advisors. Its hard to get back to a good working relationship after something like that.
I will try to establish my own independence and capacity to successfully graduate with a plan (by 20yy I plan to submit these results, draft by Jan 20zz and so on).
Good luck!
answered Jul 16 at 1:08
SparkSpark
14.4k8 gold badges31 silver badges53 bronze badges
7
(+1) This is the right answer, but the sad truth is that the probability that it works (i.e., PI complies) is very field dependent due to grant structures. My PhD is statistics I don't think I've met a stats professor for which this conversation wouldn't work. My wife's is biology and in that field, since professorships live and die by grants approved, I'd guess 50-50 odds of working.
– Cliff AB
Jul 16 at 15:20
2
Thanks for the detailed answer. I will try to have "the graduation talk" with my advisor. I hope it works.
– user18244
Jul 16 at 17:05
2
@user18244, good luck!
– Spark
Jul 17 at 7:42
add a comment
|
I think your most realistic option is to have an honest discussion with your advisor about your goals and expectations.
Tell them that you’d like to graduate by 20xx, and you think your work on A B C was fulfilling and interesting. You feel like you can really build a narrative around these projects that would culminate in a good thesis within the timeframe set above. Given your goal, you feel like starting a new project at this time will be detrimental to your progress.
Ideally your advisor would totally see it your way and you’ll graduate into the sunset. Realistically: advisors tend to be overzealous at times and can exert a lot of pressure over their students. A reasonable advisor would leave the choice to you; a clever one will make you believe that it’s a really good idea to start this new project (you don’t have enough material now, your CV will be amazing with the new project accomplished...). So a lot of this depends on the dynamics you have with your advisor.
I would not go over their head unless you’re willing and able to switch advisors. Its hard to get back to a good working relationship after something like that.
I will try to establish my own independence and capacity to successfully graduate with a plan (by 20yy I plan to submit these results, draft by Jan 20zz and so on).
Good luck!
answered Jul 16 at 1:08
SparkSpark
14.4k8 gold badges31 silver badges53 bronze badges
7
(+1) This is the right answer, but the sad truth is that the probability that it works (i.e., PI complies) is very field dependent due to grant structures. My PhD is statistics I don't think I've met a stats professor for which this conversation wouldn't work. My wife's is biology and in that field, since professorships live and die by grants approved, I'd guess 50-50 odds of working.
– Cliff AB
Jul 16 at 15:20
2
Thanks for the detailed answer. I will try to have "the graduation talk" with my advisor. I hope it works.
– user18244
Jul 16 at 17:05
2
@user18244, good luck!
– Spark
Jul 17 at 7:42
add a comment
|
I think your most realistic option is to have an honest discussion with your advisor about your goals and expectations.
Tell them that you’d like to graduate by 20xx, and you think your work on A B C was fulfilling and interesting. You feel like you can really build a narrative around these projects that would culminate in a good thesis within the timeframe set above. Given your goal, you feel like starting a new project at this time will be detrimental to your progress.
Ideally your advisor would totally see it your way and you’ll graduate into the sunset. Realistically: advisors tend to be overzealous at times and can exert a lot of pressure over their students. A reasonable advisor would leave the choice to you; a clever one will make you believe that it’s a really good idea to start this new project (you don’t have enough material now, your CV will be amazing with the new project accomplished...). So a lot of this depends on the dynamics you have with your advisor.
I would not go over their head unless you’re willing and able to switch advisors. Its hard to get back to a good working relationship after something like that.
I will try to establish my own independence and capacity to successfully graduate with a plan (by 20yy I plan to submit these results, draft by Jan 20zz and so on).
Good luck!
answered Jul 16 at 1:08
SparkSpark
14.4k8 gold badges31 silver badges53 bronze badges
I think your most realistic option is to have an honest discussion with your advisor about your goals and expectations.
Tell them that you’d like to graduate by 20xx, and you think your work on A B C was fulfilling and interesting. You feel like you can really build a narrative around these projects that would culminate in a good thesis within the timeframe set above. Given your goal, you feel like starting a new project at this time will be detrimental to your progress.
Ideally your advisor would totally see it your way and you’ll graduate into the sunset. Realistically: advisors tend to be overzealous at times and can exert a lot of pressure over their students. A reasonable advisor would leave the choice to you; a clever one will make you believe that it’s a really good idea to start this new project (you don’t have enough material now, your CV will be amazing with the new project accomplished...). So a lot of this depends on the dynamics you have with your advisor.
I would not go over their head unless you’re willing and able to switch advisors. Its hard to get back to a good working relationship after something like that.
I will try to establish my own independence and capacity to successfully graduate with a plan (by 20yy I plan to submit these results, draft by Jan 20zz and so on).
Good luck!
answered Jul 16 at 1:08
SparkSpark
14.4k8 gold badges31 silver badges53 bronze badges
answered Jul 16 at 1:08
SparkSpark
14.4k8 gold badges31 silver badges53 bronze badges
answered Jul 16 at 1:08
SparkSpark
14.4k8 gold badges31 silver badges53 bronze badges
answered Jul 16 at 1:08
SparkSpark
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7
(+1) This is the right answer, but the sad truth is that the probability that it works (i.e., PI complies) is very field dependent due to grant structures. My PhD is statistics I don't think I've met a stats professor for which this conversation wouldn't work. My wife's is biology and in that field, since professorships live and die by grants approved, I'd guess 50-50 odds of working.
– Cliff AB
Jul 16 at 15:20
2
Thanks for the detailed answer. I will try to have "the graduation talk" with my advisor. I hope it works.
– user18244
Jul 16 at 17:05
2
@user18244, good luck!
– Spark
Jul 17 at 7:42
add a comment
|
7
(+1) This is the right answer, but the sad truth is that the probability that it works (i.e., PI complies) is very field dependent due to grant structures. My PhD is statistics I don't think I've met a stats professor for which this conversation wouldn't work. My wife's is biology and in that field, since professorships live and die by grants approved, I'd guess 50-50 odds of working.
– Cliff AB
Jul 16 at 15:20
2
Thanks for the detailed answer. I will try to have "the graduation talk" with my advisor. I hope it works.
– user18244
Jul 16 at 17:05
2
@user18244, good luck!
– Spark
Jul 17 at 7:42
7
7
(+1) This is the right answer, but the sad truth is that the probability that it works (i.e., PI complies) is very field dependent due to grant structures. My PhD is statistics I don't think I've met a stats professor for which this conversation wouldn't work. My wife's is biology and in that field, since professorships live and die by grants approved, I'd guess 50-50 odds of working.
– Cliff AB
Jul 16 at 15:20
(+1) This is the right answer, but the sad truth is that the probability that it works (i.e., PI complies) is very field dependent due to grant structures. My PhD is statistics I don't think I've met a stats professor for which this conversation wouldn't work. My wife's is biology and in that field, since professorships live and die by grants approved, I'd guess 50-50 odds of working.
– Cliff AB
Jul 16 at 15:20
2
2
Thanks for the detailed answer. I will try to have "the graduation talk" with my advisor. I hope it works.
– user18244
Jul 16 at 17:05
Thanks for the detailed answer. I will try to have "the graduation talk" with my advisor. I hope it works.
– user18244
Jul 16 at 17:05
2
2
@user18244, good luck!
– Spark
Jul 17 at 7:42
@user18244, good luck!
– Spark
Jul 17 at 7:42
add a comment
|
Lots of good advice in @Spark's answer. I would add that you might suggest mentoring an new student to take over the project when you are gone. You can advise them on the design while you focus on writing your last two papers. This is a reasonably common practice, at least in the fields I have worked in. This should have a number of advantages from all perspectives:
- Your adviser will get your help training the new student to take over which means they will have 5 more years of work on the project rather than just the 1.5 they can get from you.
- It takes the burden of the new project off your shoulders while still providing a mechanism for the work to get done.
- If it isn't worth your adviser's efforts to recruit a new student for the project, then it shouldn't be worth your time either. Making your adviser have to make the first effort toward moving the project forward will demonstrate how much they really care about making it happen.
- By helping the new student, you might be able to get your name on some of their papers even after you graduate.
answered Jul 16 at 23:40
BarkerBarker
1,5533 silver badges13 bronze badges
Thanks a lot for the input! I would be more than willing to mentor some students to take over if my advisor agrees to let me off the hook.
– user18244
Jul 16 at 23:59
add a comment
|
Lots of good advice in @Spark's answer. I would add that you might suggest mentoring an new student to take over the project when you are gone. You can advise them on the design while you focus on writing your last two papers. This is a reasonably common practice, at least in the fields I have worked in. This should have a number of advantages from all perspectives:
- Your adviser will get your help training the new student to take over which means they will have 5 more years of work on the project rather than just the 1.5 they can get from you.
- It takes the burden of the new project off your shoulders while still providing a mechanism for the work to get done.
- If it isn't worth your adviser's efforts to recruit a new student for the project, then it shouldn't be worth your time either. Making your adviser have to make the first effort toward moving the project forward will demonstrate how much they really care about making it happen.
- By helping the new student, you might be able to get your name on some of their papers even after you graduate.
answered Jul 16 at 23:40
BarkerBarker
1,5533 silver badges13 bronze badges
Thanks a lot for the input! I would be more than willing to mentor some students to take over if my advisor agrees to let me off the hook.
– user18244
Jul 16 at 23:59
add a comment
|
Lots of good advice in @Spark's answer. I would add that you might suggest mentoring an new student to take over the project when you are gone. You can advise them on the design while you focus on writing your last two papers. This is a reasonably common practice, at least in the fields I have worked in. This should have a number of advantages from all perspectives:
- Your adviser will get your help training the new student to take over which means they will have 5 more years of work on the project rather than just the 1.5 they can get from you.
- It takes the burden of the new project off your shoulders while still providing a mechanism for the work to get done.
- If it isn't worth your adviser's efforts to recruit a new student for the project, then it shouldn't be worth your time either. Making your adviser have to make the first effort toward moving the project forward will demonstrate how much they really care about making it happen.
- By helping the new student, you might be able to get your name on some of their papers even after you graduate.
answered Jul 16 at 23:40
BarkerBarker
1,5533 silver badges13 bronze badges
Lots of good advice in @Spark's answer. I would add that you might suggest mentoring an new student to take over the project when you are gone. You can advise them on the design while you focus on writing your last two papers. This is a reasonably common practice, at least in the fields I have worked in. This should have a number of advantages from all perspectives:
- Your adviser will get your help training the new student to take over which means they will have 5 more years of work on the project rather than just the 1.5 they can get from you.
- It takes the burden of the new project off your shoulders while still providing a mechanism for the work to get done.
- If it isn't worth your adviser's efforts to recruit a new student for the project, then it shouldn't be worth your time either. Making your adviser have to make the first effort toward moving the project forward will demonstrate how much they really care about making it happen.
- By helping the new student, you might be able to get your name on some of their papers even after you graduate.
answered Jul 16 at 23:40
BarkerBarker
1,5533 silver badges13 bronze badges
answered Jul 16 at 23:40
BarkerBarker
1,5533 silver badges13 bronze badges
answered Jul 16 at 23:40
BarkerBarker
1,5533 silver badges13 bronze badges
answered Jul 16 at 23:40
BarkerBarker
1,5533 silver badges13 bronze badges
1,5533 silver badges13 bronze badges
Thanks a lot for the input! I would be more than willing to mentor some students to take over if my advisor agrees to let me off the hook.
– user18244
Jul 16 at 23:59
add a comment
|
Thanks a lot for the input! I would be more than willing to mentor some students to take over if my advisor agrees to let me off the hook.
– user18244
Jul 16 at 23:59
Thanks a lot for the input! I would be more than willing to mentor some students to take over if my advisor agrees to let me off the hook.
– user18244
Jul 16 at 23:59
Thanks a lot for the input! I would be more than willing to mentor some students to take over if my advisor agrees to let me off the hook.
– user18244
Jul 16 at 23:59
add a comment
|
Adding on to Sparks answer, it would be helpful to provide context to your planned graduation date. A reason to graduate by a certain date presented with reasoning from a different angle makes it more difficult for the professor to counter argue.
Drawing reasons for example from:
Family - presence needed, marriage or impending split/divorce, pregnancy or desire to get pregnant by a certain age due to fertility
Work - money needed, job offer, etc
Visa - although this is specific to your case
Relocation - plan to move elsewhere for some reason or another
Whether you actually are going to carry through with the reasoning and how truthful the reasoning is up to you. Just try not to be blatantly false that you'll get caught
answered Jul 16 at 10:24
Emmanuel AdornaEmmanuel Adorna
411 bronze badge
11
"Because reasons" can be a dangerous approach here. From the student's side, this is a bait and switch. "I thought I was done, and I would like to finish up", without explanation, is the approach to take.
– Scott Seidman
Jul 16 at 12:05
3
I agree with Scott. As an advisor, It’s really none of my business why one would want to graduate at a certain time. I may gently ask (to establish a sense of the urgency), but would not expect it.
– Spark
Jul 16 at 12:45
Might be worth seeing if you can infer the advisor's potential reaction from prior grad students' experiences.
– Nat
Jul 17 at 1:36
While it isn’t the advisor’s business why a student would want to graduate on a certain date, it is the advisor’s business to push for completion of his design and improvement of his project. Student should come prepared to counter the advisor’s arguments particularly if the advisor is adamant that student is not done yet
– Emmanuel Adorna
Jul 17 at 13:23
add a comment
|
Adding on to Sparks answer, it would be helpful to provide context to your planned graduation date. A reason to graduate by a certain date presented with reasoning from a different angle makes it more difficult for the professor to counter argue.
Drawing reasons for example from:
Family - presence needed, marriage or impending split/divorce, pregnancy or desire to get pregnant by a certain age due to fertility
Work - money needed, job offer, etc
Visa - although this is specific to your case
Relocation - plan to move elsewhere for some reason or another
Whether you actually are going to carry through with the reasoning and how truthful the reasoning is up to you. Just try not to be blatantly false that you'll get caught
answered Jul 16 at 10:24
Emmanuel AdornaEmmanuel Adorna
411 bronze badge
11
"Because reasons" can be a dangerous approach here. From the student's side, this is a bait and switch. "I thought I was done, and I would like to finish up", without explanation, is the approach to take.
– Scott Seidman
Jul 16 at 12:05
3
I agree with Scott. As an advisor, It’s really none of my business why one would want to graduate at a certain time. I may gently ask (to establish a sense of the urgency), but would not expect it.
– Spark
Jul 16 at 12:45
Might be worth seeing if you can infer the advisor's potential reaction from prior grad students' experiences.
– Nat
Jul 17 at 1:36
While it isn’t the advisor’s business why a student would want to graduate on a certain date, it is the advisor’s business to push for completion of his design and improvement of his project. Student should come prepared to counter the advisor’s arguments particularly if the advisor is adamant that student is not done yet
– Emmanuel Adorna
Jul 17 at 13:23
add a comment
|
Adding on to Sparks answer, it would be helpful to provide context to your planned graduation date. A reason to graduate by a certain date presented with reasoning from a different angle makes it more difficult for the professor to counter argue.
Drawing reasons for example from:
Family - presence needed, marriage or impending split/divorce, pregnancy or desire to get pregnant by a certain age due to fertility
Work - money needed, job offer, etc
Visa - although this is specific to your case
Relocation - plan to move elsewhere for some reason or another
Whether you actually are going to carry through with the reasoning and how truthful the reasoning is up to you. Just try not to be blatantly false that you'll get caught
answered Jul 16 at 10:24
Emmanuel AdornaEmmanuel Adorna
411 bronze badge
Adding on to Sparks answer, it would be helpful to provide context to your planned graduation date. A reason to graduate by a certain date presented with reasoning from a different angle makes it more difficult for the professor to counter argue.
Drawing reasons for example from:
Family - presence needed, marriage or impending split/divorce, pregnancy or desire to get pregnant by a certain age due to fertility
Work - money needed, job offer, etc
Visa - although this is specific to your case
Relocation - plan to move elsewhere for some reason or another
Whether you actually are going to carry through with the reasoning and how truthful the reasoning is up to you. Just try not to be blatantly false that you'll get caught
answered Jul 16 at 10:24
Emmanuel AdornaEmmanuel Adorna
411 bronze badge
answered Jul 16 at 10:24
Emmanuel AdornaEmmanuel Adorna
411 bronze badge
answered Jul 16 at 10:24
Emmanuel AdornaEmmanuel Adorna
411 bronze badge
answered Jul 16 at 10:24
Emmanuel AdornaEmmanuel Adorna
411 bronze badge
411 bronze badge
11
"Because reasons" can be a dangerous approach here. From the student's side, this is a bait and switch. "I thought I was done, and I would like to finish up", without explanation, is the approach to take.
– Scott Seidman
Jul 16 at 12:05
3
I agree with Scott. As an advisor, It’s really none of my business why one would want to graduate at a certain time. I may gently ask (to establish a sense of the urgency), but would not expect it.
– Spark
Jul 16 at 12:45
Might be worth seeing if you can infer the advisor's potential reaction from prior grad students' experiences.
– Nat
Jul 17 at 1:36
While it isn’t the advisor’s business why a student would want to graduate on a certain date, it is the advisor’s business to push for completion of his design and improvement of his project. Student should come prepared to counter the advisor’s arguments particularly if the advisor is adamant that student is not done yet
– Emmanuel Adorna
Jul 17 at 13:23
add a comment
|
11
"Because reasons" can be a dangerous approach here. From the student's side, this is a bait and switch. "I thought I was done, and I would like to finish up", without explanation, is the approach to take.
– Scott Seidman
Jul 16 at 12:05
3
I agree with Scott. As an advisor, It’s really none of my business why one would want to graduate at a certain time. I may gently ask (to establish a sense of the urgency), but would not expect it.
– Spark
Jul 16 at 12:45
Might be worth seeing if you can infer the advisor's potential reaction from prior grad students' experiences.
– Nat
Jul 17 at 1:36
While it isn’t the advisor’s business why a student would want to graduate on a certain date, it is the advisor’s business to push for completion of his design and improvement of his project. Student should come prepared to counter the advisor’s arguments particularly if the advisor is adamant that student is not done yet
– Emmanuel Adorna
Jul 17 at 13:23
11
11
"Because reasons" can be a dangerous approach here. From the student's side, this is a bait and switch. "I thought I was done, and I would like to finish up", without explanation, is the approach to take.
– Scott Seidman
Jul 16 at 12:05
"Because reasons" can be a dangerous approach here. From the student's side, this is a bait and switch. "I thought I was done, and I would like to finish up", without explanation, is the approach to take.
– Scott Seidman
Jul 16 at 12:05
3
3
I agree with Scott. As an advisor, It’s really none of my business why one would want to graduate at a certain time. I may gently ask (to establish a sense of the urgency), but would not expect it.
– Spark
Jul 16 at 12:45
I agree with Scott. As an advisor, It’s really none of my business why one would want to graduate at a certain time. I may gently ask (to establish a sense of the urgency), but would not expect it.
– Spark
Jul 16 at 12:45
Might be worth seeing if you can infer the advisor's potential reaction from prior grad students' experiences.
– Nat
Jul 17 at 1:36
Might be worth seeing if you can infer the advisor's potential reaction from prior grad students' experiences.
– Nat
Jul 17 at 1:36
While it isn’t the advisor’s business why a student would want to graduate on a certain date, it is the advisor’s business to push for completion of his design and improvement of his project. Student should come prepared to counter the advisor’s arguments particularly if the advisor is adamant that student is not done yet
– Emmanuel Adorna
Jul 17 at 13:23
While it isn’t the advisor’s business why a student would want to graduate on a certain date, it is the advisor’s business to push for completion of his design and improvement of his project. Student should come prepared to counter the advisor’s arguments particularly if the advisor is adamant that student is not done yet
– Emmanuel Adorna
Jul 17 at 13:23
add a comment
|
protected by Alexandros Jul 18 at 8:30
Thank you for your interest in this question.
Because it has attracted low-quality or spam answers that had to be removed, posting an answer now requires 10 reputation on this site (the association bonus does not count).
Would you like to answer one of these unanswered questions instead?
1
a) Assuming you are on a (student) F-visa, and thus tied to these guys, correct? b) what happens when you hit the maximum duration allowed by the Institute to keep a PhD student (6-7 years), do you flunk out having been his cash cow? c) What is this advisor's and dept's track record on PhD students: how do students actually manage to graduate? d) Best solution I've seen is you calculate how many full days a week you'll work on papers (2? 3? 4? 5 even?) then tell them that's what you need to do to graduate, stand firm, mention the working hours of other current and previous PhD students.
– smci
Jul 17 at 15:50
a) I am tied to these guys due to funding, not a visa. I receive funding from my professor for being an RA b) The institute will not allow me to register and I will have to wrap up and graduate. c) He keeps students for 6 and 6.5 years. Longer than other professors in the department. Usually, students get in a fight to force graduation and end in bad terms with my advisor. D) Yes, I agree. I decided to draft a timeline with milestones, publication plan, and then talk to him about it. I want things to end on good terms with him so I will try to reach a good middle ground.
– user18244
Jul 17 at 22:05
c) An advisor like that is guaranteed to end up on bad terms, take that as given, esp. if he's been acting like this for years. d) So what happens if you simply say "I am only available 1 day a week, I will be writing my thesis the other 6", stand firm, document it, do not back down? Yes you must draft a timeline for protecting your own productivity; sandbag it a little too. a) Good, so you're not totally at his mercy. Whatever happens, start your thesis today, and do whatever you need to do to prevent all interruptions 6 day a week (e.g. work from library, with phone/messaging/email cut off).
– smci
Jul 17 at 22:14