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Line segments inside a square


Find a straight tunnelFind a straight tunnel 2Find shortest network connecting four pointsConnect four towers by roadsClash of arrowsQuadrilateral inside a squareInside or outside the square?IcosikaitrigonsA construction on an infinite 2d grid, part 1$verb|Eight Circles|$Form Common Geometric ShapesPentomino solution maximizing straight lines length in rectangle - wood cutter problem






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margin-bottom:0;

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6















$begingroup$


A set of line segments inside or at the edge of a square with side length 1 should be positioned in such a way,
that any straight line going through the square must touch or intersect at least one of the line segment.
Find such a configuration where the total length of all such line segments is minimal?



Example: choose the 4 sides of the square as line segments. The length of those line segments is 4.
A better choice are the two diagonals of the square with a total length of $2timessqrt2$ ~ 2,828. Can you improve further?










share|improve this question









$endgroup$














  • $begingroup$
    Technically we can calculus the line segments into curves if we so please.
    $endgroup$
    – greenturtle3141
    Sep 20 at 20:26










  • $begingroup$
    well, the line segments should be straight lines, if you want to clarify that.
    $endgroup$
    – ThomasL
    Sep 20 at 20:33










  • $begingroup$
    @greenturtle3141 While true, I can't think of any situations in this puzzle where we would prefer curves to straight lines.
    $endgroup$
    – LOTGP
    Sep 20 at 20:39










  • $begingroup$
    Two related puzzles: Find a straight tunnel and Find a straight tunnel 2
    $endgroup$
    – Jaap Scherphuis
    Sep 20 at 20:51










  • $begingroup$
    Very nice one! Deceptively appears to be rather easy to solve ...
    $endgroup$
    – collapsar
    Sep 21 at 13:41

















6















$begingroup$


A set of line segments inside or at the edge of a square with side length 1 should be positioned in such a way,
that any straight line going through the square must touch or intersect at least one of the line segment.
Find such a configuration where the total length of all such line segments is minimal?



Example: choose the 4 sides of the square as line segments. The length of those line segments is 4.
A better choice are the two diagonals of the square with a total length of $2timessqrt2$ ~ 2,828. Can you improve further?










share|improve this question









$endgroup$














  • $begingroup$
    Technically we can calculus the line segments into curves if we so please.
    $endgroup$
    – greenturtle3141
    Sep 20 at 20:26










  • $begingroup$
    well, the line segments should be straight lines, if you want to clarify that.
    $endgroup$
    – ThomasL
    Sep 20 at 20:33










  • $begingroup$
    @greenturtle3141 While true, I can't think of any situations in this puzzle where we would prefer curves to straight lines.
    $endgroup$
    – LOTGP
    Sep 20 at 20:39










  • $begingroup$
    Two related puzzles: Find a straight tunnel and Find a straight tunnel 2
    $endgroup$
    – Jaap Scherphuis
    Sep 20 at 20:51










  • $begingroup$
    Very nice one! Deceptively appears to be rather easy to solve ...
    $endgroup$
    – collapsar
    Sep 21 at 13:41













6













6









6


1



$begingroup$


A set of line segments inside or at the edge of a square with side length 1 should be positioned in such a way,
that any straight line going through the square must touch or intersect at least one of the line segment.
Find such a configuration where the total length of all such line segments is minimal?



Example: choose the 4 sides of the square as line segments. The length of those line segments is 4.
A better choice are the two diagonals of the square with a total length of $2timessqrt2$ ~ 2,828. Can you improve further?










share|improve this question









$endgroup$




A set of line segments inside or at the edge of a square with side length 1 should be positioned in such a way,
that any straight line going through the square must touch or intersect at least one of the line segment.
Find such a configuration where the total length of all such line segments is minimal?



Example: choose the 4 sides of the square as line segments. The length of those line segments is 4.
A better choice are the two diagonals of the square with a total length of $2timessqrt2$ ~ 2,828. Can you improve further?







geometry strategy






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked Sep 20 at 17:47









ThomasLThomasL

1,4962 silver badges21 bronze badges




1,4962 silver badges21 bronze badges














  • $begingroup$
    Technically we can calculus the line segments into curves if we so please.
    $endgroup$
    – greenturtle3141
    Sep 20 at 20:26










  • $begingroup$
    well, the line segments should be straight lines, if you want to clarify that.
    $endgroup$
    – ThomasL
    Sep 20 at 20:33










  • $begingroup$
    @greenturtle3141 While true, I can't think of any situations in this puzzle where we would prefer curves to straight lines.
    $endgroup$
    – LOTGP
    Sep 20 at 20:39










  • $begingroup$
    Two related puzzles: Find a straight tunnel and Find a straight tunnel 2
    $endgroup$
    – Jaap Scherphuis
    Sep 20 at 20:51










  • $begingroup$
    Very nice one! Deceptively appears to be rather easy to solve ...
    $endgroup$
    – collapsar
    Sep 21 at 13:41
















  • $begingroup$
    Technically we can calculus the line segments into curves if we so please.
    $endgroup$
    – greenturtle3141
    Sep 20 at 20:26










  • $begingroup$
    well, the line segments should be straight lines, if you want to clarify that.
    $endgroup$
    – ThomasL
    Sep 20 at 20:33










  • $begingroup$
    @greenturtle3141 While true, I can't think of any situations in this puzzle where we would prefer curves to straight lines.
    $endgroup$
    – LOTGP
    Sep 20 at 20:39










  • $begingroup$
    Two related puzzles: Find a straight tunnel and Find a straight tunnel 2
    $endgroup$
    – Jaap Scherphuis
    Sep 20 at 20:51










  • $begingroup$
    Very nice one! Deceptively appears to be rather easy to solve ...
    $endgroup$
    – collapsar
    Sep 21 at 13:41















$begingroup$
Technically we can calculus the line segments into curves if we so please.
$endgroup$
– greenturtle3141
Sep 20 at 20:26




$begingroup$
Technically we can calculus the line segments into curves if we so please.
$endgroup$
– greenturtle3141
Sep 20 at 20:26












$begingroup$
well, the line segments should be straight lines, if you want to clarify that.
$endgroup$
– ThomasL
Sep 20 at 20:33




$begingroup$
well, the line segments should be straight lines, if you want to clarify that.
$endgroup$
– ThomasL
Sep 20 at 20:33












$begingroup$
@greenturtle3141 While true, I can't think of any situations in this puzzle where we would prefer curves to straight lines.
$endgroup$
– LOTGP
Sep 20 at 20:39




$begingroup$
@greenturtle3141 While true, I can't think of any situations in this puzzle where we would prefer curves to straight lines.
$endgroup$
– LOTGP
Sep 20 at 20:39












$begingroup$
Two related puzzles: Find a straight tunnel and Find a straight tunnel 2
$endgroup$
– Jaap Scherphuis
Sep 20 at 20:51




$begingroup$
Two related puzzles: Find a straight tunnel and Find a straight tunnel 2
$endgroup$
– Jaap Scherphuis
Sep 20 at 20:51












$begingroup$
Very nice one! Deceptively appears to be rather easy to solve ...
$endgroup$
– collapsar
Sep 21 at 13:41




$begingroup$
Very nice one! Deceptively appears to be rather easy to solve ...
$endgroup$
– collapsar
Sep 21 at 13:41










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















8

















$begingroup$

Building on LOTGP's answer, you could do this:




enter image description here




Assuming a unit square, the total length is:




The top left segment is $sqrt2/2$.
The three other segments are shortest when they meet at 120 degrees. This makes the triangle angles $(120, 45, 15)$. Using the sine rule, that gives
$sin45/sin120 approx 0.8164$ for the long sides
$sin15/sin120 approx 0.2988$ for the short sides

for a total of about $2.638958$.

This is a slight improvement over LOTGP's answer which is $2+sqrt2/2 approx 2.707107$.







share|improve this answer












$endgroup$









  • 2




    $begingroup$
    According to wikipedia, this is the best known answer. However, our site policy dictates that you must invent some new mathematics and prove the optimality, or your brilliant solution does not count as an answer at all, and should be posted as a comment or community wiki instead. (If this policy seems unfair, there's a recent meta post to that effect currently active.)
    $endgroup$
    – Bass
    Sep 21 at 8:16










  • $begingroup$
    Well done! If you use roots for the trigonometic values, you can write it as $$sqrt2+sqrt1.5$$
    $endgroup$
    – ThomasL
    Sep 21 at 14:02


















8

















$begingroup$

Seems a slightly better solution would be to:




cover 2 of the sides that meet at one of the corners, then draw the half diagonal from the opposite corner to the middle.




Something like this:




Picture




The total length is then:




1 + 1 + sqrt(2)/2 = 2.707







share|improve this answer










$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    good finding! But I know that there is at least one more improvement...
    $endgroup$
    – ThomasL
    Sep 20 at 20:20



















2

















$begingroup$

Observation 1 (trivial):




There must be a segment touching each corner of the square




Observation 2 (non-rigorous):




Consider the solution of both main diagonals. Any other solution consisting of exactly 4 segments with a single intersection point has a greater length than the both diagonals.

> This can be seen by moving the intersection point and repeatedly replacing any segment by a polyline of 2 segments. Due to the triangle inequality any of these operations increases the length of the segment set. Note that (well-behaved) curves can be approximated to an arbitrary precision by polylines so this construction is not limited to sets of straight segments (some technicalities are missing for a mathematically rigorous proof).




Working assumption:




The solution will be a connected structure. The structure shall thus map to a connected graph of minimal geometrical edge length that links all 4 corners of the unit square.




There is a structure that precisely realizes these needs:




A Steiner tree, which can be seen here:

Steiner tree in unit square

The total length of segments is approx. 2.732




What is missing for optimality ( or: the dangers of intuition) ?




The proof that the minimal structure must be connected. It seems intuitively obvious that if the structure is disconnected, either a corridor can be found through which rays can pass that intersect two sides of the square or the structure is way too long. This needs to be formalized however to be sure.




Update




After peeking into the other solutions, i found my intuition proved wrong ... The structure need not be connected. However, among the connected ones, the Steiner tree is optimal.







share|improve this answer










$endgroup$















    Your Answer








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    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

    votes








    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    8

















    $begingroup$

    Building on LOTGP's answer, you could do this:




    enter image description here




    Assuming a unit square, the total length is:




    The top left segment is $sqrt2/2$.
    The three other segments are shortest when they meet at 120 degrees. This makes the triangle angles $(120, 45, 15)$. Using the sine rule, that gives
    $sin45/sin120 approx 0.8164$ for the long sides
    $sin15/sin120 approx 0.2988$ for the short sides

    for a total of about $2.638958$.

    This is a slight improvement over LOTGP's answer which is $2+sqrt2/2 approx 2.707107$.







    share|improve this answer












    $endgroup$









    • 2




      $begingroup$
      According to wikipedia, this is the best known answer. However, our site policy dictates that you must invent some new mathematics and prove the optimality, or your brilliant solution does not count as an answer at all, and should be posted as a comment or community wiki instead. (If this policy seems unfair, there's a recent meta post to that effect currently active.)
      $endgroup$
      – Bass
      Sep 21 at 8:16










    • $begingroup$
      Well done! If you use roots for the trigonometic values, you can write it as $$sqrt2+sqrt1.5$$
      $endgroup$
      – ThomasL
      Sep 21 at 14:02















    8

















    $begingroup$

    Building on LOTGP's answer, you could do this:




    enter image description here




    Assuming a unit square, the total length is:




    The top left segment is $sqrt2/2$.
    The three other segments are shortest when they meet at 120 degrees. This makes the triangle angles $(120, 45, 15)$. Using the sine rule, that gives
    $sin45/sin120 approx 0.8164$ for the long sides
    $sin15/sin120 approx 0.2988$ for the short sides

    for a total of about $2.638958$.

    This is a slight improvement over LOTGP's answer which is $2+sqrt2/2 approx 2.707107$.







    share|improve this answer












    $endgroup$









    • 2




      $begingroup$
      According to wikipedia, this is the best known answer. However, our site policy dictates that you must invent some new mathematics and prove the optimality, or your brilliant solution does not count as an answer at all, and should be posted as a comment or community wiki instead. (If this policy seems unfair, there's a recent meta post to that effect currently active.)
      $endgroup$
      – Bass
      Sep 21 at 8:16










    • $begingroup$
      Well done! If you use roots for the trigonometic values, you can write it as $$sqrt2+sqrt1.5$$
      $endgroup$
      – ThomasL
      Sep 21 at 14:02













    8















    8











    8







    $begingroup$

    Building on LOTGP's answer, you could do this:




    enter image description here




    Assuming a unit square, the total length is:




    The top left segment is $sqrt2/2$.
    The three other segments are shortest when they meet at 120 degrees. This makes the triangle angles $(120, 45, 15)$. Using the sine rule, that gives
    $sin45/sin120 approx 0.8164$ for the long sides
    $sin15/sin120 approx 0.2988$ for the short sides

    for a total of about $2.638958$.

    This is a slight improvement over LOTGP's answer which is $2+sqrt2/2 approx 2.707107$.







    share|improve this answer












    $endgroup$



    Building on LOTGP's answer, you could do this:




    enter image description here




    Assuming a unit square, the total length is:




    The top left segment is $sqrt2/2$.
    The three other segments are shortest when they meet at 120 degrees. This makes the triangle angles $(120, 45, 15)$. Using the sine rule, that gives
    $sin45/sin120 approx 0.8164$ for the long sides
    $sin15/sin120 approx 0.2988$ for the short sides

    for a total of about $2.638958$.

    This is a slight improvement over LOTGP's answer which is $2+sqrt2/2 approx 2.707107$.








    share|improve this answer















    share|improve this answer




    share|improve this answer








    edited Sep 20 at 21:32

























    answered Sep 20 at 21:17









    Jaap ScherphuisJaap Scherphuis

    22.7k1 gold badge40 silver badges94 bronze badges




    22.7k1 gold badge40 silver badges94 bronze badges










    • 2




      $begingroup$
      According to wikipedia, this is the best known answer. However, our site policy dictates that you must invent some new mathematics and prove the optimality, or your brilliant solution does not count as an answer at all, and should be posted as a comment or community wiki instead. (If this policy seems unfair, there's a recent meta post to that effect currently active.)
      $endgroup$
      – Bass
      Sep 21 at 8:16










    • $begingroup$
      Well done! If you use roots for the trigonometic values, you can write it as $$sqrt2+sqrt1.5$$
      $endgroup$
      – ThomasL
      Sep 21 at 14:02












    • 2




      $begingroup$
      According to wikipedia, this is the best known answer. However, our site policy dictates that you must invent some new mathematics and prove the optimality, or your brilliant solution does not count as an answer at all, and should be posted as a comment or community wiki instead. (If this policy seems unfair, there's a recent meta post to that effect currently active.)
      $endgroup$
      – Bass
      Sep 21 at 8:16










    • $begingroup$
      Well done! If you use roots for the trigonometic values, you can write it as $$sqrt2+sqrt1.5$$
      $endgroup$
      – ThomasL
      Sep 21 at 14:02







    2




    2




    $begingroup$
    According to wikipedia, this is the best known answer. However, our site policy dictates that you must invent some new mathematics and prove the optimality, or your brilliant solution does not count as an answer at all, and should be posted as a comment or community wiki instead. (If this policy seems unfair, there's a recent meta post to that effect currently active.)
    $endgroup$
    – Bass
    Sep 21 at 8:16




    $begingroup$
    According to wikipedia, this is the best known answer. However, our site policy dictates that you must invent some new mathematics and prove the optimality, or your brilliant solution does not count as an answer at all, and should be posted as a comment or community wiki instead. (If this policy seems unfair, there's a recent meta post to that effect currently active.)
    $endgroup$
    – Bass
    Sep 21 at 8:16












    $begingroup$
    Well done! If you use roots for the trigonometic values, you can write it as $$sqrt2+sqrt1.5$$
    $endgroup$
    – ThomasL
    Sep 21 at 14:02




    $begingroup$
    Well done! If you use roots for the trigonometic values, you can write it as $$sqrt2+sqrt1.5$$
    $endgroup$
    – ThomasL
    Sep 21 at 14:02













    8

















    $begingroup$

    Seems a slightly better solution would be to:




    cover 2 of the sides that meet at one of the corners, then draw the half diagonal from the opposite corner to the middle.




    Something like this:




    Picture




    The total length is then:




    1 + 1 + sqrt(2)/2 = 2.707







    share|improve this answer










    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      good finding! But I know that there is at least one more improvement...
      $endgroup$
      – ThomasL
      Sep 20 at 20:20
















    8

















    $begingroup$

    Seems a slightly better solution would be to:




    cover 2 of the sides that meet at one of the corners, then draw the half diagonal from the opposite corner to the middle.




    Something like this:




    Picture




    The total length is then:




    1 + 1 + sqrt(2)/2 = 2.707







    share|improve this answer










    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      good finding! But I know that there is at least one more improvement...
      $endgroup$
      – ThomasL
      Sep 20 at 20:20














    8















    8











    8







    $begingroup$

    Seems a slightly better solution would be to:




    cover 2 of the sides that meet at one of the corners, then draw the half diagonal from the opposite corner to the middle.




    Something like this:




    Picture




    The total length is then:




    1 + 1 + sqrt(2)/2 = 2.707







    share|improve this answer










    $endgroup$



    Seems a slightly better solution would be to:




    cover 2 of the sides that meet at one of the corners, then draw the half diagonal from the opposite corner to the middle.




    Something like this:




    Picture




    The total length is then:




    1 + 1 + sqrt(2)/2 = 2.707








    share|improve this answer













    share|improve this answer




    share|improve this answer










    answered Sep 20 at 18:01









    LOTGPLOTGP

    3561 silver badge7 bronze badges




    3561 silver badge7 bronze badges














    • $begingroup$
      good finding! But I know that there is at least one more improvement...
      $endgroup$
      – ThomasL
      Sep 20 at 20:20

















    • $begingroup$
      good finding! But I know that there is at least one more improvement...
      $endgroup$
      – ThomasL
      Sep 20 at 20:20
















    $begingroup$
    good finding! But I know that there is at least one more improvement...
    $endgroup$
    – ThomasL
    Sep 20 at 20:20





    $begingroup$
    good finding! But I know that there is at least one more improvement...
    $endgroup$
    – ThomasL
    Sep 20 at 20:20












    2

















    $begingroup$

    Observation 1 (trivial):




    There must be a segment touching each corner of the square




    Observation 2 (non-rigorous):




    Consider the solution of both main diagonals. Any other solution consisting of exactly 4 segments with a single intersection point has a greater length than the both diagonals.

    > This can be seen by moving the intersection point and repeatedly replacing any segment by a polyline of 2 segments. Due to the triangle inequality any of these operations increases the length of the segment set. Note that (well-behaved) curves can be approximated to an arbitrary precision by polylines so this construction is not limited to sets of straight segments (some technicalities are missing for a mathematically rigorous proof).




    Working assumption:




    The solution will be a connected structure. The structure shall thus map to a connected graph of minimal geometrical edge length that links all 4 corners of the unit square.




    There is a structure that precisely realizes these needs:




    A Steiner tree, which can be seen here:

    Steiner tree in unit square

    The total length of segments is approx. 2.732




    What is missing for optimality ( or: the dangers of intuition) ?




    The proof that the minimal structure must be connected. It seems intuitively obvious that if the structure is disconnected, either a corridor can be found through which rays can pass that intersect two sides of the square or the structure is way too long. This needs to be formalized however to be sure.




    Update




    After peeking into the other solutions, i found my intuition proved wrong ... The structure need not be connected. However, among the connected ones, the Steiner tree is optimal.







    share|improve this answer










    $endgroup$


















      2

















      $begingroup$

      Observation 1 (trivial):




      There must be a segment touching each corner of the square




      Observation 2 (non-rigorous):




      Consider the solution of both main diagonals. Any other solution consisting of exactly 4 segments with a single intersection point has a greater length than the both diagonals.

      > This can be seen by moving the intersection point and repeatedly replacing any segment by a polyline of 2 segments. Due to the triangle inequality any of these operations increases the length of the segment set. Note that (well-behaved) curves can be approximated to an arbitrary precision by polylines so this construction is not limited to sets of straight segments (some technicalities are missing for a mathematically rigorous proof).




      Working assumption:




      The solution will be a connected structure. The structure shall thus map to a connected graph of minimal geometrical edge length that links all 4 corners of the unit square.




      There is a structure that precisely realizes these needs:




      A Steiner tree, which can be seen here:

      Steiner tree in unit square

      The total length of segments is approx. 2.732




      What is missing for optimality ( or: the dangers of intuition) ?




      The proof that the minimal structure must be connected. It seems intuitively obvious that if the structure is disconnected, either a corridor can be found through which rays can pass that intersect two sides of the square or the structure is way too long. This needs to be formalized however to be sure.




      Update




      After peeking into the other solutions, i found my intuition proved wrong ... The structure need not be connected. However, among the connected ones, the Steiner tree is optimal.







      share|improve this answer










      $endgroup$
















        2















        2











        2







        $begingroup$

        Observation 1 (trivial):




        There must be a segment touching each corner of the square




        Observation 2 (non-rigorous):




        Consider the solution of both main diagonals. Any other solution consisting of exactly 4 segments with a single intersection point has a greater length than the both diagonals.

        > This can be seen by moving the intersection point and repeatedly replacing any segment by a polyline of 2 segments. Due to the triangle inequality any of these operations increases the length of the segment set. Note that (well-behaved) curves can be approximated to an arbitrary precision by polylines so this construction is not limited to sets of straight segments (some technicalities are missing for a mathematically rigorous proof).




        Working assumption:




        The solution will be a connected structure. The structure shall thus map to a connected graph of minimal geometrical edge length that links all 4 corners of the unit square.




        There is a structure that precisely realizes these needs:




        A Steiner tree, which can be seen here:

        Steiner tree in unit square

        The total length of segments is approx. 2.732




        What is missing for optimality ( or: the dangers of intuition) ?




        The proof that the minimal structure must be connected. It seems intuitively obvious that if the structure is disconnected, either a corridor can be found through which rays can pass that intersect two sides of the square or the structure is way too long. This needs to be formalized however to be sure.




        Update




        After peeking into the other solutions, i found my intuition proved wrong ... The structure need not be connected. However, among the connected ones, the Steiner tree is optimal.







        share|improve this answer










        $endgroup$



        Observation 1 (trivial):




        There must be a segment touching each corner of the square




        Observation 2 (non-rigorous):




        Consider the solution of both main diagonals. Any other solution consisting of exactly 4 segments with a single intersection point has a greater length than the both diagonals.

        > This can be seen by moving the intersection point and repeatedly replacing any segment by a polyline of 2 segments. Due to the triangle inequality any of these operations increases the length of the segment set. Note that (well-behaved) curves can be approximated to an arbitrary precision by polylines so this construction is not limited to sets of straight segments (some technicalities are missing for a mathematically rigorous proof).




        Working assumption:




        The solution will be a connected structure. The structure shall thus map to a connected graph of minimal geometrical edge length that links all 4 corners of the unit square.




        There is a structure that precisely realizes these needs:




        A Steiner tree, which can be seen here:

        Steiner tree in unit square

        The total length of segments is approx. 2.732




        What is missing for optimality ( or: the dangers of intuition) ?




        The proof that the minimal structure must be connected. It seems intuitively obvious that if the structure is disconnected, either a corridor can be found through which rays can pass that intersect two sides of the square or the structure is way too long. This needs to be formalized however to be sure.




        Update




        After peeking into the other solutions, i found my intuition proved wrong ... The structure need not be connected. However, among the connected ones, the Steiner tree is optimal.








        share|improve this answer













        share|improve this answer




        share|improve this answer










        answered Sep 21 at 13:30









        collapsarcollapsar

        5232 silver badges7 bronze badges




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