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Confusion regarding control system of a Mars rover


Closed loop plant-control systemCascade Control System - Multi-Stage Temperature ControlControl System BasicsConfusion in understanding control system?Confusion regarding step responses of integrator and differentiator?Confusion in block diagram of open loop and close loop control system?confusion regarding QNET VTOL(Vertical Take off and Landing)Meaning of “Degrees of Freedom” in control system?






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty
margin-bottom:0;









5















$begingroup$


I am studying Modern Control Systems, 11th edition, by Dorf and Bishop.



In its fourth chapter, it discusses design examples and one example is of a Mars rover. In that example, I am confused by the highlighted sentence (The vehicle is controlled from earth by sending it path commands).



I am confused, because the round trip communication time to Mars is approximately, on average, more than 20 minutes. How will the rover, then, respond in a scenario where immediate action is needed (for example a sudden dust storm, or any other issue where delay cannot be tolerated)?



So why is the rover not fully (approaching 99%) autonomous, so that it makes all its decisions on its own immediately and transmits only the readings/observations/measurements results to Earth?



Enter image description here in attached photo










share|improve this question











$endgroup$










  • 7




    $begingroup$
    Mars, the planet, (and Mars, the chocolate bar) and Earth get capital letters. They're proper nouns.
    $endgroup$
    – Transistor
    Sep 25 at 13:06






  • 4




    $begingroup$
    Doesn't this belong on Space Exploration? - " a question and answer site for spacecraft operators, scientists, engineers, and enthusiasts". Samples: How does the Curiosity rover survive dust storms on Mars?, How much can the Mars rover Curiosity do autonomously, after four years of operation?, and Why do the Mars rovers move so cautiously?.
    $endgroup$
    – Peter Mortensen
    Sep 25 at 21:46











  • $begingroup$
    Martian dust storms aren't sudden. They build over the course of days or weeks, and the proper response is generally planned well in advance.
    $endgroup$
    – Mark
    Sep 25 at 22:11

















5















$begingroup$


I am studying Modern Control Systems, 11th edition, by Dorf and Bishop.



In its fourth chapter, it discusses design examples and one example is of a Mars rover. In that example, I am confused by the highlighted sentence (The vehicle is controlled from earth by sending it path commands).



I am confused, because the round trip communication time to Mars is approximately, on average, more than 20 minutes. How will the rover, then, respond in a scenario where immediate action is needed (for example a sudden dust storm, or any other issue where delay cannot be tolerated)?



So why is the rover not fully (approaching 99%) autonomous, so that it makes all its decisions on its own immediately and transmits only the readings/observations/measurements results to Earth?



Enter image description here in attached photo










share|improve this question











$endgroup$










  • 7




    $begingroup$
    Mars, the planet, (and Mars, the chocolate bar) and Earth get capital letters. They're proper nouns.
    $endgroup$
    – Transistor
    Sep 25 at 13:06






  • 4




    $begingroup$
    Doesn't this belong on Space Exploration? - " a question and answer site for spacecraft operators, scientists, engineers, and enthusiasts". Samples: How does the Curiosity rover survive dust storms on Mars?, How much can the Mars rover Curiosity do autonomously, after four years of operation?, and Why do the Mars rovers move so cautiously?.
    $endgroup$
    – Peter Mortensen
    Sep 25 at 21:46











  • $begingroup$
    Martian dust storms aren't sudden. They build over the course of days or weeks, and the proper response is generally planned well in advance.
    $endgroup$
    – Mark
    Sep 25 at 22:11













5













5









5





$begingroup$


I am studying Modern Control Systems, 11th edition, by Dorf and Bishop.



In its fourth chapter, it discusses design examples and one example is of a Mars rover. In that example, I am confused by the highlighted sentence (The vehicle is controlled from earth by sending it path commands).



I am confused, because the round trip communication time to Mars is approximately, on average, more than 20 minutes. How will the rover, then, respond in a scenario where immediate action is needed (for example a sudden dust storm, or any other issue where delay cannot be tolerated)?



So why is the rover not fully (approaching 99%) autonomous, so that it makes all its decisions on its own immediately and transmits only the readings/observations/measurements results to Earth?



Enter image description here in attached photo










share|improve this question











$endgroup$




I am studying Modern Control Systems, 11th edition, by Dorf and Bishop.



In its fourth chapter, it discusses design examples and one example is of a Mars rover. In that example, I am confused by the highlighted sentence (The vehicle is controlled from earth by sending it path commands).



I am confused, because the round trip communication time to Mars is approximately, on average, more than 20 minutes. How will the rover, then, respond in a scenario where immediate action is needed (for example a sudden dust storm, or any other issue where delay cannot be tolerated)?



So why is the rover not fully (approaching 99%) autonomous, so that it makes all its decisions on its own immediately and transmits only the readings/observations/measurements results to Earth?



Enter image description here in attached photo







control control-system






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Sep 26 at 6:13









Peter Mortensen

1,6123 gold badges15 silver badges22 bronze badges




1,6123 gold badges15 silver badges22 bronze badges










asked Sep 25 at 12:23









abtjabtj

2574 bronze badges




2574 bronze badges










  • 7




    $begingroup$
    Mars, the planet, (and Mars, the chocolate bar) and Earth get capital letters. They're proper nouns.
    $endgroup$
    – Transistor
    Sep 25 at 13:06






  • 4




    $begingroup$
    Doesn't this belong on Space Exploration? - " a question and answer site for spacecraft operators, scientists, engineers, and enthusiasts". Samples: How does the Curiosity rover survive dust storms on Mars?, How much can the Mars rover Curiosity do autonomously, after four years of operation?, and Why do the Mars rovers move so cautiously?.
    $endgroup$
    – Peter Mortensen
    Sep 25 at 21:46











  • $begingroup$
    Martian dust storms aren't sudden. They build over the course of days or weeks, and the proper response is generally planned well in advance.
    $endgroup$
    – Mark
    Sep 25 at 22:11












  • 7




    $begingroup$
    Mars, the planet, (and Mars, the chocolate bar) and Earth get capital letters. They're proper nouns.
    $endgroup$
    – Transistor
    Sep 25 at 13:06






  • 4




    $begingroup$
    Doesn't this belong on Space Exploration? - " a question and answer site for spacecraft operators, scientists, engineers, and enthusiasts". Samples: How does the Curiosity rover survive dust storms on Mars?, How much can the Mars rover Curiosity do autonomously, after four years of operation?, and Why do the Mars rovers move so cautiously?.
    $endgroup$
    – Peter Mortensen
    Sep 25 at 21:46











  • $begingroup$
    Martian dust storms aren't sudden. They build over the course of days or weeks, and the proper response is generally planned well in advance.
    $endgroup$
    – Mark
    Sep 25 at 22:11







7




7




$begingroup$
Mars, the planet, (and Mars, the chocolate bar) and Earth get capital letters. They're proper nouns.
$endgroup$
– Transistor
Sep 25 at 13:06




$begingroup$
Mars, the planet, (and Mars, the chocolate bar) and Earth get capital letters. They're proper nouns.
$endgroup$
– Transistor
Sep 25 at 13:06




4




4




$begingroup$
Doesn't this belong on Space Exploration? - " a question and answer site for spacecraft operators, scientists, engineers, and enthusiasts". Samples: How does the Curiosity rover survive dust storms on Mars?, How much can the Mars rover Curiosity do autonomously, after four years of operation?, and Why do the Mars rovers move so cautiously?.
$endgroup$
– Peter Mortensen
Sep 25 at 21:46





$begingroup$
Doesn't this belong on Space Exploration? - " a question and answer site for spacecraft operators, scientists, engineers, and enthusiasts". Samples: How does the Curiosity rover survive dust storms on Mars?, How much can the Mars rover Curiosity do autonomously, after four years of operation?, and Why do the Mars rovers move so cautiously?.
$endgroup$
– Peter Mortensen
Sep 25 at 21:46













$begingroup$
Martian dust storms aren't sudden. They build over the course of days or weeks, and the proper response is generally planned well in advance.
$endgroup$
– Mark
Sep 25 at 22:11




$begingroup$
Martian dust storms aren't sudden. They build over the course of days or weeks, and the proper response is generally planned well in advance.
$endgroup$
– Mark
Sep 25 at 22:11










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















10

















$begingroup$

Mars rovers don't move very fast, that is an important part. The "drivers" from Earth plan a rover movement for months, testing out scenarios, studying the topography, etc. Specific movements are planned the day before and are coded up, simulated, and when everything checks out, are sent to the rover as commands.



For example, the Spirit Rover was (is) on Mars from 2004 to 2010. In 6 years it traveled a total of 7,730.5 meters (4.8 miles). Its doppleganger, Opportunity was active on Mars from 2004 until 2018 and traveled a total of 45.16km (28.06 miles) over 14 years. "Major driving days" were 300-ish feet.



For dust storms, they simply wait until the storm has passed. They can't really "pull into a garage". For the Martian winters, the rovers would be parked on a hill facing the sun and they would simply stay there doing low-power activities or going into sleep-mode. Dust storms that lasted days would sometimes be encountered and they could only be powered on for a few minutes a day.



But it isn't just hand-driven, Opportunity and Spirit had autonomous modes. They were capable of simply getting a new position and negotiating the terrain themselves to drive there. They had the ability to do that (although I don't know how much it was used).



Typically a drive would mean "move X meters, stop, take pictures" then the rover drivers (there were at least 16) would examine the terrain, compute a path/turn and restart the process.



This method became useful later when Spirit's wheel locked up, they had to invent a new driving method. Spirit got stuck in 2009 and didn't survive the Martian winter. Opportunity got stuck in 2005 and it took 6 weeks of planning/simulations to get it out of the sand.



NASA's next rover mission to Mars will have an autonomous helicopter that will be able to automatically take-off, transit, and land.



NASA Mars Helicopter Technology Demonstration



So why can't the rover be fully autonomous and just send readings back to Earth? Well geology is still a "human science". A team of geologists may look at pictures and decide that a certain rock formation is worth studying, or that there could be water in position X/Y. Somebody needs to tell it where to go, and when it gets there, somebody needs to determine the best spot to take samples to maximize the possibility. The instruments that they use don't have an unlimited lifetime, so care must be taken with what it samples.






share|improve this answer












$endgroup$





















    4

















    $begingroup$

    The path commands sent from Earth are general instructions on where to go. Earth operators can roughly plan paths 40 minutes in advance by studying terrain and obstacles, and in some cases by simulating the anticipated conditions with terrestrial equipment which is differently weighted to simulate Mars gravity.



    The control systems operating in real time are automated, as they respond to tactile, close-up visual, or other sensors. I suspect these are the systems which will be discussed as the chapter progresses, not the slower Earth-Mars feedback loop.






    share|improve this answer










    $endgroup$















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      2 Answers
      2






      active

      oldest

      votes








      2 Answers
      2






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      10

















      $begingroup$

      Mars rovers don't move very fast, that is an important part. The "drivers" from Earth plan a rover movement for months, testing out scenarios, studying the topography, etc. Specific movements are planned the day before and are coded up, simulated, and when everything checks out, are sent to the rover as commands.



      For example, the Spirit Rover was (is) on Mars from 2004 to 2010. In 6 years it traveled a total of 7,730.5 meters (4.8 miles). Its doppleganger, Opportunity was active on Mars from 2004 until 2018 and traveled a total of 45.16km (28.06 miles) over 14 years. "Major driving days" were 300-ish feet.



      For dust storms, they simply wait until the storm has passed. They can't really "pull into a garage". For the Martian winters, the rovers would be parked on a hill facing the sun and they would simply stay there doing low-power activities or going into sleep-mode. Dust storms that lasted days would sometimes be encountered and they could only be powered on for a few minutes a day.



      But it isn't just hand-driven, Opportunity and Spirit had autonomous modes. They were capable of simply getting a new position and negotiating the terrain themselves to drive there. They had the ability to do that (although I don't know how much it was used).



      Typically a drive would mean "move X meters, stop, take pictures" then the rover drivers (there were at least 16) would examine the terrain, compute a path/turn and restart the process.



      This method became useful later when Spirit's wheel locked up, they had to invent a new driving method. Spirit got stuck in 2009 and didn't survive the Martian winter. Opportunity got stuck in 2005 and it took 6 weeks of planning/simulations to get it out of the sand.



      NASA's next rover mission to Mars will have an autonomous helicopter that will be able to automatically take-off, transit, and land.



      NASA Mars Helicopter Technology Demonstration



      So why can't the rover be fully autonomous and just send readings back to Earth? Well geology is still a "human science". A team of geologists may look at pictures and decide that a certain rock formation is worth studying, or that there could be water in position X/Y. Somebody needs to tell it where to go, and when it gets there, somebody needs to determine the best spot to take samples to maximize the possibility. The instruments that they use don't have an unlimited lifetime, so care must be taken with what it samples.






      share|improve this answer












      $endgroup$


















        10

















        $begingroup$

        Mars rovers don't move very fast, that is an important part. The "drivers" from Earth plan a rover movement for months, testing out scenarios, studying the topography, etc. Specific movements are planned the day before and are coded up, simulated, and when everything checks out, are sent to the rover as commands.



        For example, the Spirit Rover was (is) on Mars from 2004 to 2010. In 6 years it traveled a total of 7,730.5 meters (4.8 miles). Its doppleganger, Opportunity was active on Mars from 2004 until 2018 and traveled a total of 45.16km (28.06 miles) over 14 years. "Major driving days" were 300-ish feet.



        For dust storms, they simply wait until the storm has passed. They can't really "pull into a garage". For the Martian winters, the rovers would be parked on a hill facing the sun and they would simply stay there doing low-power activities or going into sleep-mode. Dust storms that lasted days would sometimes be encountered and they could only be powered on for a few minutes a day.



        But it isn't just hand-driven, Opportunity and Spirit had autonomous modes. They were capable of simply getting a new position and negotiating the terrain themselves to drive there. They had the ability to do that (although I don't know how much it was used).



        Typically a drive would mean "move X meters, stop, take pictures" then the rover drivers (there were at least 16) would examine the terrain, compute a path/turn and restart the process.



        This method became useful later when Spirit's wheel locked up, they had to invent a new driving method. Spirit got stuck in 2009 and didn't survive the Martian winter. Opportunity got stuck in 2005 and it took 6 weeks of planning/simulations to get it out of the sand.



        NASA's next rover mission to Mars will have an autonomous helicopter that will be able to automatically take-off, transit, and land.



        NASA Mars Helicopter Technology Demonstration



        So why can't the rover be fully autonomous and just send readings back to Earth? Well geology is still a "human science". A team of geologists may look at pictures and decide that a certain rock formation is worth studying, or that there could be water in position X/Y. Somebody needs to tell it where to go, and when it gets there, somebody needs to determine the best spot to take samples to maximize the possibility. The instruments that they use don't have an unlimited lifetime, so care must be taken with what it samples.






        share|improve this answer












        $endgroup$
















          10















          10











          10







          $begingroup$

          Mars rovers don't move very fast, that is an important part. The "drivers" from Earth plan a rover movement for months, testing out scenarios, studying the topography, etc. Specific movements are planned the day before and are coded up, simulated, and when everything checks out, are sent to the rover as commands.



          For example, the Spirit Rover was (is) on Mars from 2004 to 2010. In 6 years it traveled a total of 7,730.5 meters (4.8 miles). Its doppleganger, Opportunity was active on Mars from 2004 until 2018 and traveled a total of 45.16km (28.06 miles) over 14 years. "Major driving days" were 300-ish feet.



          For dust storms, they simply wait until the storm has passed. They can't really "pull into a garage". For the Martian winters, the rovers would be parked on a hill facing the sun and they would simply stay there doing low-power activities or going into sleep-mode. Dust storms that lasted days would sometimes be encountered and they could only be powered on for a few minutes a day.



          But it isn't just hand-driven, Opportunity and Spirit had autonomous modes. They were capable of simply getting a new position and negotiating the terrain themselves to drive there. They had the ability to do that (although I don't know how much it was used).



          Typically a drive would mean "move X meters, stop, take pictures" then the rover drivers (there were at least 16) would examine the terrain, compute a path/turn and restart the process.



          This method became useful later when Spirit's wheel locked up, they had to invent a new driving method. Spirit got stuck in 2009 and didn't survive the Martian winter. Opportunity got stuck in 2005 and it took 6 weeks of planning/simulations to get it out of the sand.



          NASA's next rover mission to Mars will have an autonomous helicopter that will be able to automatically take-off, transit, and land.



          NASA Mars Helicopter Technology Demonstration



          So why can't the rover be fully autonomous and just send readings back to Earth? Well geology is still a "human science". A team of geologists may look at pictures and decide that a certain rock formation is worth studying, or that there could be water in position X/Y. Somebody needs to tell it where to go, and when it gets there, somebody needs to determine the best spot to take samples to maximize the possibility. The instruments that they use don't have an unlimited lifetime, so care must be taken with what it samples.






          share|improve this answer












          $endgroup$



          Mars rovers don't move very fast, that is an important part. The "drivers" from Earth plan a rover movement for months, testing out scenarios, studying the topography, etc. Specific movements are planned the day before and are coded up, simulated, and when everything checks out, are sent to the rover as commands.



          For example, the Spirit Rover was (is) on Mars from 2004 to 2010. In 6 years it traveled a total of 7,730.5 meters (4.8 miles). Its doppleganger, Opportunity was active on Mars from 2004 until 2018 and traveled a total of 45.16km (28.06 miles) over 14 years. "Major driving days" were 300-ish feet.



          For dust storms, they simply wait until the storm has passed. They can't really "pull into a garage". For the Martian winters, the rovers would be parked on a hill facing the sun and they would simply stay there doing low-power activities or going into sleep-mode. Dust storms that lasted days would sometimes be encountered and they could only be powered on for a few minutes a day.



          But it isn't just hand-driven, Opportunity and Spirit had autonomous modes. They were capable of simply getting a new position and negotiating the terrain themselves to drive there. They had the ability to do that (although I don't know how much it was used).



          Typically a drive would mean "move X meters, stop, take pictures" then the rover drivers (there were at least 16) would examine the terrain, compute a path/turn and restart the process.



          This method became useful later when Spirit's wheel locked up, they had to invent a new driving method. Spirit got stuck in 2009 and didn't survive the Martian winter. Opportunity got stuck in 2005 and it took 6 weeks of planning/simulations to get it out of the sand.



          NASA's next rover mission to Mars will have an autonomous helicopter that will be able to automatically take-off, transit, and land.



          NASA Mars Helicopter Technology Demonstration



          So why can't the rover be fully autonomous and just send readings back to Earth? Well geology is still a "human science". A team of geologists may look at pictures and decide that a certain rock formation is worth studying, or that there could be water in position X/Y. Somebody needs to tell it where to go, and when it gets there, somebody needs to determine the best spot to take samples to maximize the possibility. The instruments that they use don't have an unlimited lifetime, so care must be taken with what it samples.







          share|improve this answer















          share|improve this answer




          share|improve this answer








          edited Sep 25 at 13:12

























          answered Sep 25 at 13:01









          Ron BeyerRon Beyer

          1,1211 gold badge3 silver badges14 bronze badges




          1,1211 gold badge3 silver badges14 bronze badges


























              4

















              $begingroup$

              The path commands sent from Earth are general instructions on where to go. Earth operators can roughly plan paths 40 minutes in advance by studying terrain and obstacles, and in some cases by simulating the anticipated conditions with terrestrial equipment which is differently weighted to simulate Mars gravity.



              The control systems operating in real time are automated, as they respond to tactile, close-up visual, or other sensors. I suspect these are the systems which will be discussed as the chapter progresses, not the slower Earth-Mars feedback loop.






              share|improve this answer










              $endgroup$


















                4

















                $begingroup$

                The path commands sent from Earth are general instructions on where to go. Earth operators can roughly plan paths 40 minutes in advance by studying terrain and obstacles, and in some cases by simulating the anticipated conditions with terrestrial equipment which is differently weighted to simulate Mars gravity.



                The control systems operating in real time are automated, as they respond to tactile, close-up visual, or other sensors. I suspect these are the systems which will be discussed as the chapter progresses, not the slower Earth-Mars feedback loop.






                share|improve this answer










                $endgroup$
















                  4















                  4











                  4







                  $begingroup$

                  The path commands sent from Earth are general instructions on where to go. Earth operators can roughly plan paths 40 minutes in advance by studying terrain and obstacles, and in some cases by simulating the anticipated conditions with terrestrial equipment which is differently weighted to simulate Mars gravity.



                  The control systems operating in real time are automated, as they respond to tactile, close-up visual, or other sensors. I suspect these are the systems which will be discussed as the chapter progresses, not the slower Earth-Mars feedback loop.






                  share|improve this answer










                  $endgroup$



                  The path commands sent from Earth are general instructions on where to go. Earth operators can roughly plan paths 40 minutes in advance by studying terrain and obstacles, and in some cases by simulating the anticipated conditions with terrestrial equipment which is differently weighted to simulate Mars gravity.



                  The control systems operating in real time are automated, as they respond to tactile, close-up visual, or other sensors. I suspect these are the systems which will be discussed as the chapter progresses, not the slower Earth-Mars feedback loop.







                  share|improve this answer













                  share|improve this answer




                  share|improve this answer










                  answered Sep 25 at 12:41









                  Cristobol PolychronopolisCristobol Polychronopolis

                  2,9733 silver badges12 bronze badges




                  2,9733 silver badges12 bronze badges































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