Bsrgvty

You call these things 'personal finance apps', but really most people would call them 'budgeting apps'. How frequently is your income going to change that you need to update it on an app?

You say that your expenses should be x% of your income, but that's a rule of thumb anyway, and is a starting place to creating your own budget. If you get a 20% raise, you don't need to spend 20% more on food, for example. If you wanted to gamify your budgeting experience, sure some extra stats might be nice but I don't think that will typically drive someone's decision-making.

For people on a fixed salary, the volatility primarily comes from spending. There would not be much value in seeing the same number on the screen each time the user logs in. It may even create unnecessary noise and confusion because the software would show no month to date income before the first paycheck is deposited.

For everyone people with variable income, I agree: it may be useful to monitor both income and expenses.

"Outgoings" are necessarily exactly equal to income.

It's January 2000 and you have an income of $5000. Good work if you can get it.

Some of that money goes into food you eat. Some goes to rent or mortgage or whatever. If you're prudent, some of it goes into savings.

On January 31st, all those outgoings necessarily add up to $5000. There's no other place for it to go! Even if it's a bucket called 'change I lost in the couch somehow.' If you spent only $4000, then congrats, you've accumulated $1000 in savings.

Of course, if you're not prudent and you somehow manage to spend $6000, this implies that you in fact have an income of $6000 -- that extra $1000 comes from savings, or debt, or something else. It's money that 'came in' -- so, in-come.

(NOTE that the above advice is contrary to several well-established accounting principles and practices.)

I actually work for a company that provides one of these apps, and I can say that our app does both! There's an area where you can see your outgoings broken down into categories exactly as you're describing, but there's also a part where you can look at your assets, including investments, properties, pension plans etc. The difference, I think, is that the app - particularly the assets and net worth side of it - are marketed to high net wealth individuals.

The difference here is that, quite simply, the app focuses on what is useful to the target market. A user of one of these apps is using the app because they want the app to help them end up with more money. For the majority of those users, looking at their income will be pretty boring: it will tell them how much their paycheck is. Generally, this isn't really something they can control, and even if it is, an app that says "to get more money, try being paid more" is definitely stating the obvious.

For wealthier individuals, this might not be the case. They might look at a breakdown of their income and realise that their portfolio of stocks and shares isn't making them as much as they'd hoped, and decide that they might be better off pulling some of that money out to invest in property, or whatever. The fact that the apps you're looking at don't show you this sort of thing suggests that these apps aren't aimed at that sort of person.

For people whose only income is their paycheck, and who can't really change how much they get paid, their outgoings are much more interesting, because those are things that they can control and change. They might look at their spending and realise that all those times they ordered takeaway actually add up to much more than they thought, and decide to cook more in future. They might realise that their car insurance is way too expensive, and take some time to shop around for a better deal. For the average person, their outgoings are much more varied, much harder to keep track of, and much easier to change if only they knew what needed changing. This is the role that these apps are aiming for.

Why do personal finance apps focus on outgoings rather than income

Because what's relevant is how much -- and when -- money is deposited into your checking account, not where it comes from.

The way I've always thought about my money is "outgoings as a percentage of earnings each month (with a target of max x%); and save the rest".

If you lose your job, you won't suddenly spend 10% of $0 on food.

That's why I think percentage-based budgeting is a bad idea. Use actual numbers in your budget, with percentages only as aspirations or guidelines to determine if you're over-spending.

without comparing that to your income what does it actually tell you? Money Dashboard, for example, has no way of even showing your income on the main dashboard. This seems like a major oversight to me, and surely encourages people to spend all of their money; rather than focusing on saving?

I completely reject that notion, because focusing on saving is a mindset, not an after-effect of budget percentages.

For example, if you've got $3,000 of non-negotiable expenses (after having cut all of the fluff, are living in a modest home, driving a modest car, not buying HBO, etc) every month, only then can you determine how much you can save, and how much to spend on luxuries.

For almost everybody, financial problems stem from spending. At any income threshold a person is capable of overspending. People turning to budgeting are typically getting there in an effort to track and control spending. I have never found any of these software solutions to be useful in any way because the categories are not helpful to me. "Clothing" I don't really care how much I spend in a month on clothing. It seems you are somewhat like me in this way. You are already keeping your own spreadsheet that tracks things in a way that makes sense to you, I do too. I don't care how much I spend on clothing or coffee specifically or gym membership or whatever. I track categories like "screwing around with my friends" which is food, bars, movies, BBQs and sometimes coffee. "Fixed expenses" like car insurance and amazon prime etc. "Dating" how much money is being set on fire in pursuit of a mate. Groceries vs getting takeout for myself, etc. Why was the money spent is a lot more valuable to me than where the money went.

I've often thought it would be nice to have a budgeting software that thought about spending the way I do, but it irritates me when I get an over budget warning because I bought a pair of shoes or a suit because I don't frequently buy clothes.

If you are already managing your budget in a way that makes sense to you and is working to achieve your goals, keep doing what you're doing. If it's becoming too much work to upkeep, then trim the things your tracking. But I wouldn't try too hard to use some canned budgeting software, that's likely just a clone of the other budgeting software that's available, where the main focus is to know to the penny how much money you spend on coffee or shoelaces each month.

At this point I'm pretty sure the primary purpose of Mint is to sell credit cards and loans. The apps highlight your spending then tell you all about how a lower interest rate with this product will save you money.

It gives you some perspective on expenses.

The point isn't really to budget, or to plan your savings. It gives you some vague idea of what "expensive" means. For example, if I'm thinking about going to a cinema, a $20 ticket might sound like a lot of money. If I think about it as "the cost of two lunches", I have a much more visceral idea of what the cost is. For this kind of thinking, my income doesn't matter at all. I already have a budget for spending money; now I just see what I'm actually spending that budget on.

Needless to say, you shouldn't use this for budgeting, or planning savings. It doesn't help you plan for how to use your income. It only allows you to track where your expenses are going. In my experience, it's a good mechanism for handling spending money. Am I fine with spending as much on going to the cinema as on food? It doesn't help you with financial planning, it just gives you a framework to think about the subjective value you get from the things you spend on, and how it compares to other things you spend money on.

Mind, having expenses shown as percentages of income isn't particularly helpful either. It's not like just because you earn more money you should suddenly start spending more on food, or move to a more expensive house. You budget all your necessary expenses, savings, emergency funds etc., and then you decide how much of the rest you want to use as spending money. How much each of those is compared to your income is mostly useless information. Don't get stuck on that "20% of your income into savings!" idea. Think about your expectations of the future, and design a plan that has a good chance of getting you there. There's no golden rule.