Why are stats in Angband written as 18/** instead of 19, 20…?Beating Angband as a WarriorResetting Recall Depth in AngbandWhat does LF:#-# in Angband mean?What does [5, +3] mean on armor and weapons in angband?

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Why are stats in Angband written as 18/** instead of 19, 20…?

Beating Angband as a WarriorResetting Recall Depth in AngbandWhat does LF:#-# in Angband mean?What does [5, +3] mean on armor and weapons in angband?

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In Angband (and a lot of derivative, and maybe in its predecessors also), when your stats (e.g. DEX) is below 18, it is written with a single number (1 to 18), and after that, if the stat still increases, it is written with the following format: "18/xx", where xx goes from 10 to (more than) 200.

Also, xx increases by more than 1 when you get a +1 item.

What is the intuition behind this notation?

edited May 16 at 10:35

Wrigglenite♦

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asked May 16 at 7:43

Bromind

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A similar convention is also adhered to by NetHack, which I assume inherited it from Hack and Rogue. (NetHack is at best a distant cousin of Angband.) Interestingly, NetHack also provides enchanted objects which set STR to a flat value of 25 (and do not stack with anything else).

– Kevin
May 16 at 21:43

add a comment
|

Also, xx increases by more than 1 when you get a +1 item.

What is the intuition behind this notation?

edited May 16 at 10:35

Wrigglenite♦

35.6k18 gold badges133 silver badges188 bronze badges

asked May 16 at 7:43

Bromind

2081 silver badge6 bronze badges

2

A similar convention is also adhered to by NetHack, which I assume inherited it from Hack and Rogue. (NetHack is at best a distant cousin of Angband.) Interestingly, NetHack also provides enchanted objects which set STR to a flat value of 25 (and do not stack with anything else).

– Kevin
May 16 at 21:43

add a comment
|

Also, xx increases by more than 1 when you get a +1 item.

What is the intuition behind this notation?

edited May 16 at 10:35

Wrigglenite♦

35.6k18 gold badges133 silver badges188 bronze badges

asked May 16 at 7:43

Bromind

2081 silver badge6 bronze badges

Also, xx increases by more than 1 when you get a +1 item.

What is the intuition behind this notation?

angband

edited May 16 at 10:35

Wrigglenite♦

35.6k18 gold badges133 silver badges188 bronze badges

asked May 16 at 7:43

Bromind

2081 silver badge6 bronze badges

edited May 16 at 10:35

Wrigglenite♦

35.6k18 gold badges133 silver badges188 bronze badges

asked May 16 at 7:43

Bromind

2081 silver badge6 bronze badges

edited May 16 at 10:35

Wrigglenite♦

35.6k18 gold badges133 silver badges188 bronze badges

edited May 16 at 10:35

Wrigglenite♦

35.6k18 gold badges133 silver badges188 bronze badges

edited May 16 at 10:35

Wrigglenite♦

35.6k18 gold badges133 silver badges188 bronze badges

asked May 16 at 7:43

Bromind

2081 silver badge6 bronze badges

asked May 16 at 7:43

Bromind

2081 silver badge6 bronze badges

asked May 16 at 7:43

Bromind

2081 silver badge6 bronze badges

2

A similar convention is also adhered to by NetHack, which I assume inherited it from Hack and Rogue. (NetHack is at best a distant cousin of Angband.) Interestingly, NetHack also provides enchanted objects which set STR to a flat value of 25 (and do not stack with anything else).

– Kevin
May 16 at 21:43

add a comment
|

2

A similar convention is also adhered to by NetHack, which I assume inherited it from Hack and Rogue. (NetHack is at best a distant cousin of Angband.) Interestingly, NetHack also provides enchanted objects which set STR to a flat value of 25 (and do not stack with anything else).

– Kevin
May 16 at 21:43

A similar convention is also adhered to by NetHack, which I assume inherited it from Hack and Rogue. (NetHack is at best a distant cousin of Angband.) Interestingly, NetHack also provides enchanted objects which set STR to a flat value of 25 (and do not stack with anything else).

– Kevin
May 16 at 21:43

add a comment
|

1 Answer
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I can only give you a sort of meta-answer, where this system comes from, as I haven't played Angband.

Angbands attribute system is based on AD&D. In AD&D, strength (and only strength) could be represented with 18/xx numbers. 18 is supposed to be the maximum you can achieve without magic means in AD&D, but Gary Gygax wanted to differentiate warriors more, so when, a fighter reaches 18 strength, they get to roll a percentile die (d100) to get a percentile modifier to their strength, e.g. 18/50, or 18/90, where the latter is better than the former and 18/00 (meaning 18/100) would be the strongest person in the world. This model provided a lot of problems, for example, the gap between 18 and 19 str is huge and if you ever got something, which boosted your strength, you get massively more powerful and this also allows non-fighter classes to leapfrog over fighters.

The system was abandoned in D&D 3rd edition, but it still exists today in the Hackmaster RPG, which adds percentiles for every attributes and at every value (so you can be 12/45 or 14/13).

Angband seems to have embraced the concept that 18 is the maximum and cannot be improved upon and decided to go with percentiles at the top all the way. A +1 item improves it by more than 1 percentile, because a +1 is one full attribute point, while one percentile is not.

answered May 16 at 9:16

Dulkan

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To extend this answer: Why 18? That's because this is the maximum of 3 six-sided dice. In (A)D&D, character stats are rolled up using 3d6 (or 4d6 and ignoring the lowest). Ability scores therefore range from 3 to 18.

– steenbergh
May 16 at 12:35

4

@dulkan Its exactly what you said. Every stat has a numerical value, ranging from a minimum of 3, up to a normal maximum of 18, and even higher, into the "percentile" range, represented as '18/01' through '18/100': this is the maximum that can be achieved intrinsically, for any given stat. These stats can be modified further by equipment, race and class bonuses up to a maximum of '18/220'.

– Moacir
May 16 at 13:55

1

@Moacir Alternatively, use 1d16 and add 2. But yeah, 3d6 was the original.

– Delioth
May 16 at 14:53

22

@Delioth that would result in a very different distribution compared to 3d6, even if it has the same range.

– Chieron
May 16 at 15:14

1

@Chieron Oh yeah, I was just being cheeky

– Delioth
May 16 at 15:36

|
show 2 more comments

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I can only give you a sort of meta-answer, where this system comes from, as I haven't played Angband.

The system was abandoned in D&D 3rd edition, but it still exists today in the Hackmaster RPG, which adds percentiles for every attributes and at every value (so you can be 12/45 or 14/13).

answered May 16 at 9:16

Dulkan

15.2k1 gold badge42 silver badges79 bronze badges

27

To extend this answer: Why 18? That's because this is the maximum of 3 six-sided dice. In (A)D&D, character stats are rolled up using 3d6 (or 4d6 and ignoring the lowest). Ability scores therefore range from 3 to 18.

– steenbergh
May 16 at 12:35

4

@dulkan Its exactly what you said. Every stat has a numerical value, ranging from a minimum of 3, up to a normal maximum of 18, and even higher, into the "percentile" range, represented as '18/01' through '18/100': this is the maximum that can be achieved intrinsically, for any given stat. These stats can be modified further by equipment, race and class bonuses up to a maximum of '18/220'.

– Moacir
May 16 at 13:55

1

@Moacir Alternatively, use 1d16 and add 2. But yeah, 3d6 was the original.

– Delioth
May 16 at 14:53

22

@Delioth that would result in a very different distribution compared to 3d6, even if it has the same range.

– Chieron
May 16 at 15:14

1

@Chieron Oh yeah, I was just being cheeky

– Delioth
May 16 at 15:36

|
show 2 more comments

I can only give you a sort of meta-answer, where this system comes from, as I haven't played Angband.

The system was abandoned in D&D 3rd edition, but it still exists today in the Hackmaster RPG, which adds percentiles for every attributes and at every value (so you can be 12/45 or 14/13).

answered May 16 at 9:16

Dulkan

15.2k1 gold badge42 silver badges79 bronze badges

27

To extend this answer: Why 18? That's because this is the maximum of 3 six-sided dice. In (A)D&D, character stats are rolled up using 3d6 (or 4d6 and ignoring the lowest). Ability scores therefore range from 3 to 18.

– steenbergh
May 16 at 12:35

4

@dulkan Its exactly what you said. Every stat has a numerical value, ranging from a minimum of 3, up to a normal maximum of 18, and even higher, into the "percentile" range, represented as '18/01' through '18/100': this is the maximum that can be achieved intrinsically, for any given stat. These stats can be modified further by equipment, race and class bonuses up to a maximum of '18/220'.

– Moacir
May 16 at 13:55

1

@Moacir Alternatively, use 1d16 and add 2. But yeah, 3d6 was the original.

– Delioth
May 16 at 14:53

22

@Delioth that would result in a very different distribution compared to 3d6, even if it has the same range.

– Chieron
May 16 at 15:14

1

@Chieron Oh yeah, I was just being cheeky

– Delioth
May 16 at 15:36

|
show 2 more comments

I can only give you a sort of meta-answer, where this system comes from, as I haven't played Angband.

The system was abandoned in D&D 3rd edition, but it still exists today in the Hackmaster RPG, which adds percentiles for every attributes and at every value (so you can be 12/45 or 14/13).

answered May 16 at 9:16

Dulkan

15.2k1 gold badge42 silver badges79 bronze badges

I can only give you a sort of meta-answer, where this system comes from, as I haven't played Angband.

The system was abandoned in D&D 3rd edition, but it still exists today in the Hackmaster RPG, which adds percentiles for every attributes and at every value (so you can be 12/45 or 14/13).

answered May 16 at 9:16

Dulkan

15.2k1 gold badge42 silver badges79 bronze badges

answered May 16 at 9:16

Dulkan

15.2k1 gold badge42 silver badges79 bronze badges

answered May 16 at 9:16

Dulkan

15.2k1 gold badge42 silver badges79 bronze badges

answered May 16 at 9:16

Dulkan

15.2k1 gold badge42 silver badges79 bronze badges

27

To extend this answer: Why 18? That's because this is the maximum of 3 six-sided dice. In (A)D&D, character stats are rolled up using 3d6 (or 4d6 and ignoring the lowest). Ability scores therefore range from 3 to 18.

– steenbergh
May 16 at 12:35

4

@dulkan Its exactly what you said. Every stat has a numerical value, ranging from a minimum of 3, up to a normal maximum of 18, and even higher, into the "percentile" range, represented as '18/01' through '18/100': this is the maximum that can be achieved intrinsically, for any given stat. These stats can be modified further by equipment, race and class bonuses up to a maximum of '18/220'.

– Moacir
May 16 at 13:55

1

@Moacir Alternatively, use 1d16 and add 2. But yeah, 3d6 was the original.

– Delioth
May 16 at 14:53

22

@Delioth that would result in a very different distribution compared to 3d6, even if it has the same range.

– Chieron
May 16 at 15:14

1

@Chieron Oh yeah, I was just being cheeky

– Delioth
May 16 at 15:36

|
show 2 more comments

27

To extend this answer: Why 18? That's because this is the maximum of 3 six-sided dice. In (A)D&D, character stats are rolled up using 3d6 (or 4d6 and ignoring the lowest). Ability scores therefore range from 3 to 18.

– steenbergh
May 16 at 12:35

4

@dulkan Its exactly what you said. Every stat has a numerical value, ranging from a minimum of 3, up to a normal maximum of 18, and even higher, into the "percentile" range, represented as '18/01' through '18/100': this is the maximum that can be achieved intrinsically, for any given stat. These stats can be modified further by equipment, race and class bonuses up to a maximum of '18/220'.

– Moacir
May 16 at 13:55

1

@Moacir Alternatively, use 1d16 and add 2. But yeah, 3d6 was the original.

– Delioth
May 16 at 14:53

22

@Delioth that would result in a very different distribution compared to 3d6, even if it has the same range.

– Chieron
May 16 at 15:14

1

@Chieron Oh yeah, I was just being cheeky

– Delioth
May 16 at 15:36

To extend this answer: Why 18? That's because this is the maximum of 3 six-sided dice. In (A)D&D, character stats are rolled up using 3d6 (or 4d6 and ignoring the lowest). Ability scores therefore range from 3 to 18.

– steenbergh
May 16 at 12:35

@dulkan Its exactly what you said. Every stat has a numerical value, ranging from a minimum of 3, up to a normal maximum of 18, and even higher, into the "percentile" range, represented as '18/01' through '18/100': this is the maximum that can be achieved intrinsically, for any given stat. These stats can be modified further by equipment, race and class bonuses up to a maximum of '18/220'.

– Moacir
May 16 at 13:55

@Moacir Alternatively, use 1d16 and add 2. But yeah, 3d6 was the original.

– Delioth
May 16 at 14:53

@Delioth that would result in a very different distribution compared to 3d6, even if it has the same range.

– Chieron
May 16 at 15:14

@Chieron Oh yeah, I was just being cheeky

– Delioth
May 16 at 15:36

|
show 2 more comments

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