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How is the claim “I am in New York only if I am in America” the same as "If I am in New York, then I am in America?


What is the difference between “necessary” and “sufficient”?What are the truth tables for “necessary” and “sufficient”?What is a good argument against “ad populum”?What distinguishes logical necessity, logical consequence, logical truth, and tautology from one another?Connectives, polarity and logical atoms in Linear logicPeirce's law, law of the excluded middle, and intuitionism.Syllogistic Logic: Negation of a Categorical Proposition?Are there exceptions to the principle of the excluded middle?How can you rewrite without any conditionals 'If A then B; A; therefore B' ?Formal Logic: Truth-Value AnalysisCan one think outside of logical rules? If so how?Modus Ponens as Substitute for Syllogism













15















It makes absolutely zero sense to me.



It would make sense if "I am in America" is the antecedent and the consequent is the former.



Even though it wouldn't be sound, it would make logical sense.



I hope someone could explain it in a way someone would to a beginner in logic.



Thanks










share|improve this question









New contributor




MinigameZ more is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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  • 7





    Already discussed many times on this site; see e.g. what-is-the-difference-between-necessary-and-sufficient as well as what-are-the-truth-tables-for-necessary-and-sufficient

    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    2 days ago







  • 15





    Are you perhaps interpreting the word "only" to be qualifying New York? A comma would help to clarify, as would an appropriate pause in the spoken sentence. In other words, do you understand this sentence to be "I am in New York, only if I am in America" or "I am in New York only, if I am in America." If you understood it to be the latter, then I agree that it is illogical. If you understood it to be the former, then hopefully the existing answers have helped you.

    – Richard II
    2 days ago











  • Technically if you were in New York you might be in a foreign embassy and not in "America"

    – Mark Schultheiss
    2 days ago






  • 1





    @MarkSchultheiss To take your technicality futher, are you still in new york if you are in an embassy? Is yes, then you are also in america (as you are saying the politics are irrelevant). If no, then you are also NOT in america

    – user34150
    2 days ago







  • 4





    The territories of embassies do not belong to the country the embassy represents. It still belongs to the host country. The Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations describes the how and what of embassies; what host countries are required to do, and what they are forbidden to do. But it does not state that the ground the embassy is on has been ceded to the foreign country.

    – Abigail
    2 days ago















15















It makes absolutely zero sense to me.



It would make sense if "I am in America" is the antecedent and the consequent is the former.



Even though it wouldn't be sound, it would make logical sense.



I hope someone could explain it in a way someone would to a beginner in logic.



Thanks










share|improve this question









New contributor




MinigameZ more is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.















  • 7





    Already discussed many times on this site; see e.g. what-is-the-difference-between-necessary-and-sufficient as well as what-are-the-truth-tables-for-necessary-and-sufficient

    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    2 days ago







  • 15





    Are you perhaps interpreting the word "only" to be qualifying New York? A comma would help to clarify, as would an appropriate pause in the spoken sentence. In other words, do you understand this sentence to be "I am in New York, only if I am in America" or "I am in New York only, if I am in America." If you understood it to be the latter, then I agree that it is illogical. If you understood it to be the former, then hopefully the existing answers have helped you.

    – Richard II
    2 days ago











  • Technically if you were in New York you might be in a foreign embassy and not in "America"

    – Mark Schultheiss
    2 days ago






  • 1





    @MarkSchultheiss To take your technicality futher, are you still in new york if you are in an embassy? Is yes, then you are also in america (as you are saying the politics are irrelevant). If no, then you are also NOT in america

    – user34150
    2 days ago







  • 4





    The territories of embassies do not belong to the country the embassy represents. It still belongs to the host country. The Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations describes the how and what of embassies; what host countries are required to do, and what they are forbidden to do. But it does not state that the ground the embassy is on has been ceded to the foreign country.

    – Abigail
    2 days ago













15












15








15


2






It makes absolutely zero sense to me.



It would make sense if "I am in America" is the antecedent and the consequent is the former.



Even though it wouldn't be sound, it would make logical sense.



I hope someone could explain it in a way someone would to a beginner in logic.



Thanks










share|improve this question









New contributor




MinigameZ more is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












It makes absolutely zero sense to me.



It would make sense if "I am in America" is the antecedent and the consequent is the former.



Even though it wouldn't be sound, it would make logical sense.



I hope someone could explain it in a way someone would to a beginner in logic.



Thanks







logic






share|improve this question









New contributor




MinigameZ more is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question









New contributor




MinigameZ more is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 2 days ago









Frank Hubeny

9,98251555




9,98251555






New contributor




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asked 2 days ago









MinigameZ moreMinigameZ more

12116




12116




New contributor




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New contributor





MinigameZ more is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






MinigameZ more is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







  • 7





    Already discussed many times on this site; see e.g. what-is-the-difference-between-necessary-and-sufficient as well as what-are-the-truth-tables-for-necessary-and-sufficient

    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    2 days ago







  • 15





    Are you perhaps interpreting the word "only" to be qualifying New York? A comma would help to clarify, as would an appropriate pause in the spoken sentence. In other words, do you understand this sentence to be "I am in New York, only if I am in America" or "I am in New York only, if I am in America." If you understood it to be the latter, then I agree that it is illogical. If you understood it to be the former, then hopefully the existing answers have helped you.

    – Richard II
    2 days ago











  • Technically if you were in New York you might be in a foreign embassy and not in "America"

    – Mark Schultheiss
    2 days ago






  • 1





    @MarkSchultheiss To take your technicality futher, are you still in new york if you are in an embassy? Is yes, then you are also in america (as you are saying the politics are irrelevant). If no, then you are also NOT in america

    – user34150
    2 days ago







  • 4





    The territories of embassies do not belong to the country the embassy represents. It still belongs to the host country. The Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations describes the how and what of embassies; what host countries are required to do, and what they are forbidden to do. But it does not state that the ground the embassy is on has been ceded to the foreign country.

    – Abigail
    2 days ago












  • 7





    Already discussed many times on this site; see e.g. what-is-the-difference-between-necessary-and-sufficient as well as what-are-the-truth-tables-for-necessary-and-sufficient

    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    2 days ago







  • 15





    Are you perhaps interpreting the word "only" to be qualifying New York? A comma would help to clarify, as would an appropriate pause in the spoken sentence. In other words, do you understand this sentence to be "I am in New York, only if I am in America" or "I am in New York only, if I am in America." If you understood it to be the latter, then I agree that it is illogical. If you understood it to be the former, then hopefully the existing answers have helped you.

    – Richard II
    2 days ago











  • Technically if you were in New York you might be in a foreign embassy and not in "America"

    – Mark Schultheiss
    2 days ago






  • 1





    @MarkSchultheiss To take your technicality futher, are you still in new york if you are in an embassy? Is yes, then you are also in america (as you are saying the politics are irrelevant). If no, then you are also NOT in america

    – user34150
    2 days ago







  • 4





    The territories of embassies do not belong to the country the embassy represents. It still belongs to the host country. The Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations describes the how and what of embassies; what host countries are required to do, and what they are forbidden to do. But it does not state that the ground the embassy is on has been ceded to the foreign country.

    – Abigail
    2 days ago







7




7





Already discussed many times on this site; see e.g. what-is-the-difference-between-necessary-and-sufficient as well as what-are-the-truth-tables-for-necessary-and-sufficient

– Mauro ALLEGRANZA
2 days ago






Already discussed many times on this site; see e.g. what-is-the-difference-between-necessary-and-sufficient as well as what-are-the-truth-tables-for-necessary-and-sufficient

– Mauro ALLEGRANZA
2 days ago





15




15





Are you perhaps interpreting the word "only" to be qualifying New York? A comma would help to clarify, as would an appropriate pause in the spoken sentence. In other words, do you understand this sentence to be "I am in New York, only if I am in America" or "I am in New York only, if I am in America." If you understood it to be the latter, then I agree that it is illogical. If you understood it to be the former, then hopefully the existing answers have helped you.

– Richard II
2 days ago





Are you perhaps interpreting the word "only" to be qualifying New York? A comma would help to clarify, as would an appropriate pause in the spoken sentence. In other words, do you understand this sentence to be "I am in New York, only if I am in America" or "I am in New York only, if I am in America." If you understood it to be the latter, then I agree that it is illogical. If you understood it to be the former, then hopefully the existing answers have helped you.

– Richard II
2 days ago













Technically if you were in New York you might be in a foreign embassy and not in "America"

– Mark Schultheiss
2 days ago





Technically if you were in New York you might be in a foreign embassy and not in "America"

– Mark Schultheiss
2 days ago




1




1





@MarkSchultheiss To take your technicality futher, are you still in new york if you are in an embassy? Is yes, then you are also in america (as you are saying the politics are irrelevant). If no, then you are also NOT in america

– user34150
2 days ago






@MarkSchultheiss To take your technicality futher, are you still in new york if you are in an embassy? Is yes, then you are also in america (as you are saying the politics are irrelevant). If no, then you are also NOT in america

– user34150
2 days ago





4




4





The territories of embassies do not belong to the country the embassy represents. It still belongs to the host country. The Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations describes the how and what of embassies; what host countries are required to do, and what they are forbidden to do. But it does not state that the ground the embassy is on has been ceded to the foreign country.

– Abigail
2 days ago





The territories of embassies do not belong to the country the embassy represents. It still belongs to the host country. The Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations describes the how and what of embassies; what host countries are required to do, and what they are forbidden to do. But it does not state that the ground the embassy is on has been ceded to the foreign country.

– Abigail
2 days ago










8 Answers
8






active

oldest

votes


















22














This is an example of the confusion inherent in switching between a natural language like English, and a formal language of logic.



The formulation




X only if Y




is rare in spoken English, but perfectly grammatical, and it typically has a logical meaning equivalent to




If X then Y




Both statements are saying you can't ever have X without Y. However, at first glance it looks closer to




If Y then X




which is entirely different. This represents how English has many different ways of saying the same thing (with incidental connotations and subtleties of meaning that are completely stripped out when you translate to a formal language).






share|improve this answer























  • I understand the logic arguments. And I concur that TECHNICALLY the logic of the two would be the same. However, in common usage, the phrasing of the 2nd clause, using "only" would be interpreted by US English speakers as defining oneself as being in New York because they are in America. Which is obviously not true. Regardless, the "only" usage would be widely misunderstood, whereas the "if . . .then" construction would be interpreted correctly. I suspect there is an error somewhere in interpreting the logic of the two to be the same. But said error is beyond me.

    – Corvus B
    2 days ago







  • 1





    @CorvusB, huh. Now that you point it out, I can see superficially similar constructions such as "I will eat only if I am given yoghurt" that would indeed in common usage mean "if I am given youghurt, I will eat". But I can't make my brain see the sentence in the OP with anything other than its intended meaning, and I'm not sure why.

    – Harry Johnston
    2 days ago











  • @HarryJohnston. Yes - you've brought an excellent example. I am pretty sure the first interpretation most Americans would give the "only" example would be "If I am in America, I am in New York". It might get marked incorrect on a test, but that is more like how people would "hear" the "only" statement.

    – Corvus B
    2 days ago



















20














Consider the sentence:




If I am in America then I am in New York.




One could make the antecedent, "I am in America", true by being in Chicago. But then the consequent, "I am in New York", would be false. So this conditional would be false unless we are given other information, such as travel plans, in addition to knowing that I am in America.



However, consider this sentence:




If I am in New York then I am in America.




Now whenever the antecedent, "I am in New York", is true, then so is the consequent, "I am in America". I don't need any additional information for that conditional to be true.



It would be similar for the following sentence:




I am in New York only if I am in America.




Here we are given that "I am in New York" and conclude that "I am in America". Except for English style this means the same as the previous sentence.



The authors of forall x provide a similar example using Paris and France in section "5.4 Condititional". They also provide this symbolization rule:




A sentence can be symbolized as A → B if it can be
paraphrased in English as ‘If A, then B’ or ‘A only if B’.





P. D. Magnus, Tim Button with additions by J. Robert Loftis remixed and revised by Aaron Thomas-Bolduc, Richard Zach, forallx Calgary Remix: An Introduction to Formal Logic, Fall 2018 bis. http://forallx.openlogicproject.org/






share|improve this answer


















  • 1





    This way of converting the sentence to logic does not do justice to the sentence's implications in English. The "only" version of the sentence could easily be read as "if and only if" (that is, a two-way implication).

    – Brilliand
    2 days ago






  • 7





    I'd read "I am in New York only if I am in America" as "I cannot be in New York if I am not in America", which is (more or less) the contrapositive of "If I am in New York, then I am in America", and therefore (more or less) logically equivalent to it. The pragmatic content might differ but as a native English speaker I wouldn't consider the "if and only if" reading natural.

    – Unrelated String
    2 days ago






  • 2





    @UnrelatedString I find phrases using "only if", "is a necessary condition", or "is a sufficient condition" to be difficult to understand as a native English speaker. I would ask the speaker for clarification if I were the listener. I only use "if-then" constructions to make sure I am understood by others. In this context I am using forall x to make a default interpretation of the sentence since I can't ask a speaker for clarification.

    – Frank Hubeny
    yesterday






  • 1





    @Brilliand I don't think the "only if" construction would be viewed as "if and only if" by a native speaker, but it might suggest that to the listener or cause confusion. However, I agree that symbolizing English sentences risks losing some of the native speaker's intentions. The writers of forall x warn about this as well.

    – Frank Hubeny
    yesterday






  • 1





    @UnrelatedString Exactly.

    – Eric Duminil
    yesterday


















8














"A only if B" and "if A, then B" mean the same.



The truth-condition for "if A, then B" excludes the case when A is True and B is False.



"A only if B" means that we cannot have A without B.



The two are equivalent.



See necessary and sufficient.






share|improve this answer
































    6














    The contrapositive of both statements is :



    If I am not in America, then I cannot be in New York.


    A conditional statement is logically equivalent to its contrapositive. It means both your statements are equivalent since they have the same contrapositive.






    share|improve this answer


















    • 2





      I think this answer is correct.

      – Mark Andrews
      2 days ago


















    5














    I see two interpretations of the sentence here. They mean logically different things. In both cases "only" is interpreted as "must be true and cannot be false".




    I am in New York (only if I am in America).



    If I am in New York, it can only be true that I am in America.



    New York => America.




    This is the interpretation everyone else is responding to. It is logically true.




    I can be in (New York only) if I am in America.



    If I am in America, then it can only be true that I am in New York.



    America => New York.




    This one is not logically true, you could be in Iowa.






    share|improve this answer








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    usul is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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    • My reading of the OP's first sentence could be paraphrased as "I am in New York, unless I am not in America". It's logically equivalent to your second version, I think, although reads like a statement about a particular person rather than a general statement about everyone.

      – Brilliand
      2 days ago











    • @Brilliand, agreed, I first interpreted it as something like "When I go to America, I only go to New York."

      – usul
      yesterday


















    4














    These claims have distinctly different connotations. From a pure formal-logic perspective, the "X only if Y" is equivalent to "Y or not X" which is the same as "X implies Y", which is the same as "if X then Y". However, natural language carries more information than its simple-minded reduction to predicate logic.



    The second formulation "If I am in NY then I am in USA" sounds like a simple statement of a containment relationship: it implies that "I" am an unbound variable and informs the listener that NY is within the USA.



    The first formulation connotes something about the speaker's mental state: he entertains the possibility (perhaps even likelihood) of being outside the USA in a place confusingly-similar to NY.






    share|improve this answer








    New contributor




    Ian is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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      1














      One way of analyzing the statements is to look at a truth table. Let's make the following definitions:



      A := "I am in New York"

      B := "I am in America".



      X := "I am in New York only if I am in America"

      Y := "If I am in New York, then I am in America"



      If both A and B are true, then X is true. We can write that as X(TT) = T. We have X(TF) = F (If you are in New York but not in America, then the statement "I am in New York only if I am in America" must be false). X(FT) = T and X(FF) = T; X makes a statement about what has to be true when you're in New York, so if you're not in New York, then X isn't telling you anything so it can't be proven wrong.



      If you analyze Y, you'll find that all the values are the same:

      X(TT) = Y(TT) = T

      X(TF) = Y(TF) = F

      X(FT) = Y(FT) = T

      X(FF) = Y(FF) = T



      Since no matter the truth values of A and B, X has the same truth value as Y, X and Y are equivalent; if you have two statements such that it's not possible for one to be true and the other false, then the two statements are saying essentially the same thing.



      One thing to keep in mind is that in Formal Logic, statements of the form "If S1 then S2" are considered true any time S1 is false; that is, "If S1 then S2" is interpreted as meaning "Whenever S1 is true, S2 is also true". Because of this, "If S1 then S2" is equivalent to "Either S1 is false, or S2 is true" (if S1 is false, then the statement is automatically true, because it doesn't say anything about the situation of S1 being true). And "S1 only if S2 " is also equivalent to "Either S1 is false, or S2 is true".






      share|improve this answer






























        1














        To understand this more intuitively, I think it's helpful to use formatting help and rephrase this a little, while keeping the logic the same.



        Start with this:




        “I am in New York ONLY IF I am in America”




        That means there is no option to be in New York without being in America. The reason why there is no other way is that "only"--it is there to indicate there are no other ways to be in New York and some other country. That's the work it does in this sentence.



        Now consider the second sentence you gave:




        "If I am in New York, then I am in America"




        Let's rephrase that without changing the logic at all:




        "If I am in New York, I MUST BE in America"




        What both of these are saying is that being in New York necessarily entails being in America. You can't be in New York and be any other country. In other words, you have no other option. Which is just what I showed with the first sentence.






        share|improve this answer























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          8 Answers
          8






          active

          oldest

          votes








          8 Answers
          8






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes









          22














          This is an example of the confusion inherent in switching between a natural language like English, and a formal language of logic.



          The formulation




          X only if Y




          is rare in spoken English, but perfectly grammatical, and it typically has a logical meaning equivalent to




          If X then Y




          Both statements are saying you can't ever have X without Y. However, at first glance it looks closer to




          If Y then X




          which is entirely different. This represents how English has many different ways of saying the same thing (with incidental connotations and subtleties of meaning that are completely stripped out when you translate to a formal language).






          share|improve this answer























          • I understand the logic arguments. And I concur that TECHNICALLY the logic of the two would be the same. However, in common usage, the phrasing of the 2nd clause, using "only" would be interpreted by US English speakers as defining oneself as being in New York because they are in America. Which is obviously not true. Regardless, the "only" usage would be widely misunderstood, whereas the "if . . .then" construction would be interpreted correctly. I suspect there is an error somewhere in interpreting the logic of the two to be the same. But said error is beyond me.

            – Corvus B
            2 days ago







          • 1





            @CorvusB, huh. Now that you point it out, I can see superficially similar constructions such as "I will eat only if I am given yoghurt" that would indeed in common usage mean "if I am given youghurt, I will eat". But I can't make my brain see the sentence in the OP with anything other than its intended meaning, and I'm not sure why.

            – Harry Johnston
            2 days ago











          • @HarryJohnston. Yes - you've brought an excellent example. I am pretty sure the first interpretation most Americans would give the "only" example would be "If I am in America, I am in New York". It might get marked incorrect on a test, but that is more like how people would "hear" the "only" statement.

            – Corvus B
            2 days ago
















          22














          This is an example of the confusion inherent in switching between a natural language like English, and a formal language of logic.



          The formulation




          X only if Y




          is rare in spoken English, but perfectly grammatical, and it typically has a logical meaning equivalent to




          If X then Y




          Both statements are saying you can't ever have X without Y. However, at first glance it looks closer to




          If Y then X




          which is entirely different. This represents how English has many different ways of saying the same thing (with incidental connotations and subtleties of meaning that are completely stripped out when you translate to a formal language).






          share|improve this answer























          • I understand the logic arguments. And I concur that TECHNICALLY the logic of the two would be the same. However, in common usage, the phrasing of the 2nd clause, using "only" would be interpreted by US English speakers as defining oneself as being in New York because they are in America. Which is obviously not true. Regardless, the "only" usage would be widely misunderstood, whereas the "if . . .then" construction would be interpreted correctly. I suspect there is an error somewhere in interpreting the logic of the two to be the same. But said error is beyond me.

            – Corvus B
            2 days ago







          • 1





            @CorvusB, huh. Now that you point it out, I can see superficially similar constructions such as "I will eat only if I am given yoghurt" that would indeed in common usage mean "if I am given youghurt, I will eat". But I can't make my brain see the sentence in the OP with anything other than its intended meaning, and I'm not sure why.

            – Harry Johnston
            2 days ago











          • @HarryJohnston. Yes - you've brought an excellent example. I am pretty sure the first interpretation most Americans would give the "only" example would be "If I am in America, I am in New York". It might get marked incorrect on a test, but that is more like how people would "hear" the "only" statement.

            – Corvus B
            2 days ago














          22












          22








          22







          This is an example of the confusion inherent in switching between a natural language like English, and a formal language of logic.



          The formulation




          X only if Y




          is rare in spoken English, but perfectly grammatical, and it typically has a logical meaning equivalent to




          If X then Y




          Both statements are saying you can't ever have X without Y. However, at first glance it looks closer to




          If Y then X




          which is entirely different. This represents how English has many different ways of saying the same thing (with incidental connotations and subtleties of meaning that are completely stripped out when you translate to a formal language).






          share|improve this answer













          This is an example of the confusion inherent in switching between a natural language like English, and a formal language of logic.



          The formulation




          X only if Y




          is rare in spoken English, but perfectly grammatical, and it typically has a logical meaning equivalent to




          If X then Y




          Both statements are saying you can't ever have X without Y. However, at first glance it looks closer to




          If Y then X




          which is entirely different. This represents how English has many different ways of saying the same thing (with incidental connotations and subtleties of meaning that are completely stripped out when you translate to a formal language).







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 2 days ago









          Chris SunamiChris Sunami

          21.3k12964




          21.3k12964












          • I understand the logic arguments. And I concur that TECHNICALLY the logic of the two would be the same. However, in common usage, the phrasing of the 2nd clause, using "only" would be interpreted by US English speakers as defining oneself as being in New York because they are in America. Which is obviously not true. Regardless, the "only" usage would be widely misunderstood, whereas the "if . . .then" construction would be interpreted correctly. I suspect there is an error somewhere in interpreting the logic of the two to be the same. But said error is beyond me.

            – Corvus B
            2 days ago







          • 1





            @CorvusB, huh. Now that you point it out, I can see superficially similar constructions such as "I will eat only if I am given yoghurt" that would indeed in common usage mean "if I am given youghurt, I will eat". But I can't make my brain see the sentence in the OP with anything other than its intended meaning, and I'm not sure why.

            – Harry Johnston
            2 days ago











          • @HarryJohnston. Yes - you've brought an excellent example. I am pretty sure the first interpretation most Americans would give the "only" example would be "If I am in America, I am in New York". It might get marked incorrect on a test, but that is more like how people would "hear" the "only" statement.

            – Corvus B
            2 days ago


















          • I understand the logic arguments. And I concur that TECHNICALLY the logic of the two would be the same. However, in common usage, the phrasing of the 2nd clause, using "only" would be interpreted by US English speakers as defining oneself as being in New York because they are in America. Which is obviously not true. Regardless, the "only" usage would be widely misunderstood, whereas the "if . . .then" construction would be interpreted correctly. I suspect there is an error somewhere in interpreting the logic of the two to be the same. But said error is beyond me.

            – Corvus B
            2 days ago







          • 1





            @CorvusB, huh. Now that you point it out, I can see superficially similar constructions such as "I will eat only if I am given yoghurt" that would indeed in common usage mean "if I am given youghurt, I will eat". But I can't make my brain see the sentence in the OP with anything other than its intended meaning, and I'm not sure why.

            – Harry Johnston
            2 days ago











          • @HarryJohnston. Yes - you've brought an excellent example. I am pretty sure the first interpretation most Americans would give the "only" example would be "If I am in America, I am in New York". It might get marked incorrect on a test, but that is more like how people would "hear" the "only" statement.

            – Corvus B
            2 days ago

















          I understand the logic arguments. And I concur that TECHNICALLY the logic of the two would be the same. However, in common usage, the phrasing of the 2nd clause, using "only" would be interpreted by US English speakers as defining oneself as being in New York because they are in America. Which is obviously not true. Regardless, the "only" usage would be widely misunderstood, whereas the "if . . .then" construction would be interpreted correctly. I suspect there is an error somewhere in interpreting the logic of the two to be the same. But said error is beyond me.

          – Corvus B
          2 days ago






          I understand the logic arguments. And I concur that TECHNICALLY the logic of the two would be the same. However, in common usage, the phrasing of the 2nd clause, using "only" would be interpreted by US English speakers as defining oneself as being in New York because they are in America. Which is obviously not true. Regardless, the "only" usage would be widely misunderstood, whereas the "if . . .then" construction would be interpreted correctly. I suspect there is an error somewhere in interpreting the logic of the two to be the same. But said error is beyond me.

          – Corvus B
          2 days ago





          1




          1





          @CorvusB, huh. Now that you point it out, I can see superficially similar constructions such as "I will eat only if I am given yoghurt" that would indeed in common usage mean "if I am given youghurt, I will eat". But I can't make my brain see the sentence in the OP with anything other than its intended meaning, and I'm not sure why.

          – Harry Johnston
          2 days ago





          @CorvusB, huh. Now that you point it out, I can see superficially similar constructions such as "I will eat only if I am given yoghurt" that would indeed in common usage mean "if I am given youghurt, I will eat". But I can't make my brain see the sentence in the OP with anything other than its intended meaning, and I'm not sure why.

          – Harry Johnston
          2 days ago













          @HarryJohnston. Yes - you've brought an excellent example. I am pretty sure the first interpretation most Americans would give the "only" example would be "If I am in America, I am in New York". It might get marked incorrect on a test, but that is more like how people would "hear" the "only" statement.

          – Corvus B
          2 days ago






          @HarryJohnston. Yes - you've brought an excellent example. I am pretty sure the first interpretation most Americans would give the "only" example would be "If I am in America, I am in New York". It might get marked incorrect on a test, but that is more like how people would "hear" the "only" statement.

          – Corvus B
          2 days ago












          20














          Consider the sentence:




          If I am in America then I am in New York.




          One could make the antecedent, "I am in America", true by being in Chicago. But then the consequent, "I am in New York", would be false. So this conditional would be false unless we are given other information, such as travel plans, in addition to knowing that I am in America.



          However, consider this sentence:




          If I am in New York then I am in America.




          Now whenever the antecedent, "I am in New York", is true, then so is the consequent, "I am in America". I don't need any additional information for that conditional to be true.



          It would be similar for the following sentence:




          I am in New York only if I am in America.




          Here we are given that "I am in New York" and conclude that "I am in America". Except for English style this means the same as the previous sentence.



          The authors of forall x provide a similar example using Paris and France in section "5.4 Condititional". They also provide this symbolization rule:




          A sentence can be symbolized as A → B if it can be
          paraphrased in English as ‘If A, then B’ or ‘A only if B’.





          P. D. Magnus, Tim Button with additions by J. Robert Loftis remixed and revised by Aaron Thomas-Bolduc, Richard Zach, forallx Calgary Remix: An Introduction to Formal Logic, Fall 2018 bis. http://forallx.openlogicproject.org/






          share|improve this answer


















          • 1





            This way of converting the sentence to logic does not do justice to the sentence's implications in English. The "only" version of the sentence could easily be read as "if and only if" (that is, a two-way implication).

            – Brilliand
            2 days ago






          • 7





            I'd read "I am in New York only if I am in America" as "I cannot be in New York if I am not in America", which is (more or less) the contrapositive of "If I am in New York, then I am in America", and therefore (more or less) logically equivalent to it. The pragmatic content might differ but as a native English speaker I wouldn't consider the "if and only if" reading natural.

            – Unrelated String
            2 days ago






          • 2





            @UnrelatedString I find phrases using "only if", "is a necessary condition", or "is a sufficient condition" to be difficult to understand as a native English speaker. I would ask the speaker for clarification if I were the listener. I only use "if-then" constructions to make sure I am understood by others. In this context I am using forall x to make a default interpretation of the sentence since I can't ask a speaker for clarification.

            – Frank Hubeny
            yesterday






          • 1





            @Brilliand I don't think the "only if" construction would be viewed as "if and only if" by a native speaker, but it might suggest that to the listener or cause confusion. However, I agree that symbolizing English sentences risks losing some of the native speaker's intentions. The writers of forall x warn about this as well.

            – Frank Hubeny
            yesterday






          • 1





            @UnrelatedString Exactly.

            – Eric Duminil
            yesterday















          20














          Consider the sentence:




          If I am in America then I am in New York.




          One could make the antecedent, "I am in America", true by being in Chicago. But then the consequent, "I am in New York", would be false. So this conditional would be false unless we are given other information, such as travel plans, in addition to knowing that I am in America.



          However, consider this sentence:




          If I am in New York then I am in America.




          Now whenever the antecedent, "I am in New York", is true, then so is the consequent, "I am in America". I don't need any additional information for that conditional to be true.



          It would be similar for the following sentence:




          I am in New York only if I am in America.




          Here we are given that "I am in New York" and conclude that "I am in America". Except for English style this means the same as the previous sentence.



          The authors of forall x provide a similar example using Paris and France in section "5.4 Condititional". They also provide this symbolization rule:




          A sentence can be symbolized as A → B if it can be
          paraphrased in English as ‘If A, then B’ or ‘A only if B’.





          P. D. Magnus, Tim Button with additions by J. Robert Loftis remixed and revised by Aaron Thomas-Bolduc, Richard Zach, forallx Calgary Remix: An Introduction to Formal Logic, Fall 2018 bis. http://forallx.openlogicproject.org/






          share|improve this answer


















          • 1





            This way of converting the sentence to logic does not do justice to the sentence's implications in English. The "only" version of the sentence could easily be read as "if and only if" (that is, a two-way implication).

            – Brilliand
            2 days ago






          • 7





            I'd read "I am in New York only if I am in America" as "I cannot be in New York if I am not in America", which is (more or less) the contrapositive of "If I am in New York, then I am in America", and therefore (more or less) logically equivalent to it. The pragmatic content might differ but as a native English speaker I wouldn't consider the "if and only if" reading natural.

            – Unrelated String
            2 days ago






          • 2





            @UnrelatedString I find phrases using "only if", "is a necessary condition", or "is a sufficient condition" to be difficult to understand as a native English speaker. I would ask the speaker for clarification if I were the listener. I only use "if-then" constructions to make sure I am understood by others. In this context I am using forall x to make a default interpretation of the sentence since I can't ask a speaker for clarification.

            – Frank Hubeny
            yesterday






          • 1





            @Brilliand I don't think the "only if" construction would be viewed as "if and only if" by a native speaker, but it might suggest that to the listener or cause confusion. However, I agree that symbolizing English sentences risks losing some of the native speaker's intentions. The writers of forall x warn about this as well.

            – Frank Hubeny
            yesterday






          • 1





            @UnrelatedString Exactly.

            – Eric Duminil
            yesterday













          20












          20








          20







          Consider the sentence:




          If I am in America then I am in New York.




          One could make the antecedent, "I am in America", true by being in Chicago. But then the consequent, "I am in New York", would be false. So this conditional would be false unless we are given other information, such as travel plans, in addition to knowing that I am in America.



          However, consider this sentence:




          If I am in New York then I am in America.




          Now whenever the antecedent, "I am in New York", is true, then so is the consequent, "I am in America". I don't need any additional information for that conditional to be true.



          It would be similar for the following sentence:




          I am in New York only if I am in America.




          Here we are given that "I am in New York" and conclude that "I am in America". Except for English style this means the same as the previous sentence.



          The authors of forall x provide a similar example using Paris and France in section "5.4 Condititional". They also provide this symbolization rule:




          A sentence can be symbolized as A → B if it can be
          paraphrased in English as ‘If A, then B’ or ‘A only if B’.





          P. D. Magnus, Tim Button with additions by J. Robert Loftis remixed and revised by Aaron Thomas-Bolduc, Richard Zach, forallx Calgary Remix: An Introduction to Formal Logic, Fall 2018 bis. http://forallx.openlogicproject.org/






          share|improve this answer













          Consider the sentence:




          If I am in America then I am in New York.




          One could make the antecedent, "I am in America", true by being in Chicago. But then the consequent, "I am in New York", would be false. So this conditional would be false unless we are given other information, such as travel plans, in addition to knowing that I am in America.



          However, consider this sentence:




          If I am in New York then I am in America.




          Now whenever the antecedent, "I am in New York", is true, then so is the consequent, "I am in America". I don't need any additional information for that conditional to be true.



          It would be similar for the following sentence:




          I am in New York only if I am in America.




          Here we are given that "I am in New York" and conclude that "I am in America". Except for English style this means the same as the previous sentence.



          The authors of forall x provide a similar example using Paris and France in section "5.4 Condititional". They also provide this symbolization rule:




          A sentence can be symbolized as A → B if it can be
          paraphrased in English as ‘If A, then B’ or ‘A only if B’.





          P. D. Magnus, Tim Button with additions by J. Robert Loftis remixed and revised by Aaron Thomas-Bolduc, Richard Zach, forallx Calgary Remix: An Introduction to Formal Logic, Fall 2018 bis. http://forallx.openlogicproject.org/







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 2 days ago









          Frank HubenyFrank Hubeny

          9,98251555




          9,98251555







          • 1





            This way of converting the sentence to logic does not do justice to the sentence's implications in English. The "only" version of the sentence could easily be read as "if and only if" (that is, a two-way implication).

            – Brilliand
            2 days ago






          • 7





            I'd read "I am in New York only if I am in America" as "I cannot be in New York if I am not in America", which is (more or less) the contrapositive of "If I am in New York, then I am in America", and therefore (more or less) logically equivalent to it. The pragmatic content might differ but as a native English speaker I wouldn't consider the "if and only if" reading natural.

            – Unrelated String
            2 days ago






          • 2





            @UnrelatedString I find phrases using "only if", "is a necessary condition", or "is a sufficient condition" to be difficult to understand as a native English speaker. I would ask the speaker for clarification if I were the listener. I only use "if-then" constructions to make sure I am understood by others. In this context I am using forall x to make a default interpretation of the sentence since I can't ask a speaker for clarification.

            – Frank Hubeny
            yesterday






          • 1





            @Brilliand I don't think the "only if" construction would be viewed as "if and only if" by a native speaker, but it might suggest that to the listener or cause confusion. However, I agree that symbolizing English sentences risks losing some of the native speaker's intentions. The writers of forall x warn about this as well.

            – Frank Hubeny
            yesterday






          • 1





            @UnrelatedString Exactly.

            – Eric Duminil
            yesterday












          • 1





            This way of converting the sentence to logic does not do justice to the sentence's implications in English. The "only" version of the sentence could easily be read as "if and only if" (that is, a two-way implication).

            – Brilliand
            2 days ago






          • 7





            I'd read "I am in New York only if I am in America" as "I cannot be in New York if I am not in America", which is (more or less) the contrapositive of "If I am in New York, then I am in America", and therefore (more or less) logically equivalent to it. The pragmatic content might differ but as a native English speaker I wouldn't consider the "if and only if" reading natural.

            – Unrelated String
            2 days ago






          • 2





            @UnrelatedString I find phrases using "only if", "is a necessary condition", or "is a sufficient condition" to be difficult to understand as a native English speaker. I would ask the speaker for clarification if I were the listener. I only use "if-then" constructions to make sure I am understood by others. In this context I am using forall x to make a default interpretation of the sentence since I can't ask a speaker for clarification.

            – Frank Hubeny
            yesterday






          • 1





            @Brilliand I don't think the "only if" construction would be viewed as "if and only if" by a native speaker, but it might suggest that to the listener or cause confusion. However, I agree that symbolizing English sentences risks losing some of the native speaker's intentions. The writers of forall x warn about this as well.

            – Frank Hubeny
            yesterday






          • 1





            @UnrelatedString Exactly.

            – Eric Duminil
            yesterday







          1




          1





          This way of converting the sentence to logic does not do justice to the sentence's implications in English. The "only" version of the sentence could easily be read as "if and only if" (that is, a two-way implication).

          – Brilliand
          2 days ago





          This way of converting the sentence to logic does not do justice to the sentence's implications in English. The "only" version of the sentence could easily be read as "if and only if" (that is, a two-way implication).

          – Brilliand
          2 days ago




          7




          7





          I'd read "I am in New York only if I am in America" as "I cannot be in New York if I am not in America", which is (more or less) the contrapositive of "If I am in New York, then I am in America", and therefore (more or less) logically equivalent to it. The pragmatic content might differ but as a native English speaker I wouldn't consider the "if and only if" reading natural.

          – Unrelated String
          2 days ago





          I'd read "I am in New York only if I am in America" as "I cannot be in New York if I am not in America", which is (more or less) the contrapositive of "If I am in New York, then I am in America", and therefore (more or less) logically equivalent to it. The pragmatic content might differ but as a native English speaker I wouldn't consider the "if and only if" reading natural.

          – Unrelated String
          2 days ago




          2




          2





          @UnrelatedString I find phrases using "only if", "is a necessary condition", or "is a sufficient condition" to be difficult to understand as a native English speaker. I would ask the speaker for clarification if I were the listener. I only use "if-then" constructions to make sure I am understood by others. In this context I am using forall x to make a default interpretation of the sentence since I can't ask a speaker for clarification.

          – Frank Hubeny
          yesterday





          @UnrelatedString I find phrases using "only if", "is a necessary condition", or "is a sufficient condition" to be difficult to understand as a native English speaker. I would ask the speaker for clarification if I were the listener. I only use "if-then" constructions to make sure I am understood by others. In this context I am using forall x to make a default interpretation of the sentence since I can't ask a speaker for clarification.

          – Frank Hubeny
          yesterday




          1




          1





          @Brilliand I don't think the "only if" construction would be viewed as "if and only if" by a native speaker, but it might suggest that to the listener or cause confusion. However, I agree that symbolizing English sentences risks losing some of the native speaker's intentions. The writers of forall x warn about this as well.

          – Frank Hubeny
          yesterday





          @Brilliand I don't think the "only if" construction would be viewed as "if and only if" by a native speaker, but it might suggest that to the listener or cause confusion. However, I agree that symbolizing English sentences risks losing some of the native speaker's intentions. The writers of forall x warn about this as well.

          – Frank Hubeny
          yesterday




          1




          1





          @UnrelatedString Exactly.

          – Eric Duminil
          yesterday





          @UnrelatedString Exactly.

          – Eric Duminil
          yesterday











          8














          "A only if B" and "if A, then B" mean the same.



          The truth-condition for "if A, then B" excludes the case when A is True and B is False.



          "A only if B" means that we cannot have A without B.



          The two are equivalent.



          See necessary and sufficient.






          share|improve this answer





























            8














            "A only if B" and "if A, then B" mean the same.



            The truth-condition for "if A, then B" excludes the case when A is True and B is False.



            "A only if B" means that we cannot have A without B.



            The two are equivalent.



            See necessary and sufficient.






            share|improve this answer



























              8












              8








              8







              "A only if B" and "if A, then B" mean the same.



              The truth-condition for "if A, then B" excludes the case when A is True and B is False.



              "A only if B" means that we cannot have A without B.



              The two are equivalent.



              See necessary and sufficient.






              share|improve this answer















              "A only if B" and "if A, then B" mean the same.



              The truth-condition for "if A, then B" excludes the case when A is True and B is False.



              "A only if B" means that we cannot have A without B.



              The two are equivalent.



              See necessary and sufficient.







              share|improve this answer














              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer








              edited 2 days ago

























              answered 2 days ago









              Mauro ALLEGRANZAMauro ALLEGRANZA

              29.5k22065




              29.5k22065





















                  6














                  The contrapositive of both statements is :



                  If I am not in America, then I cannot be in New York.


                  A conditional statement is logically equivalent to its contrapositive. It means both your statements are equivalent since they have the same contrapositive.






                  share|improve this answer


















                  • 2





                    I think this answer is correct.

                    – Mark Andrews
                    2 days ago















                  6














                  The contrapositive of both statements is :



                  If I am not in America, then I cannot be in New York.


                  A conditional statement is logically equivalent to its contrapositive. It means both your statements are equivalent since they have the same contrapositive.






                  share|improve this answer


















                  • 2





                    I think this answer is correct.

                    – Mark Andrews
                    2 days ago













                  6












                  6








                  6







                  The contrapositive of both statements is :



                  If I am not in America, then I cannot be in New York.


                  A conditional statement is logically equivalent to its contrapositive. It means both your statements are equivalent since they have the same contrapositive.






                  share|improve this answer













                  The contrapositive of both statements is :



                  If I am not in America, then I cannot be in New York.


                  A conditional statement is logically equivalent to its contrapositive. It means both your statements are equivalent since they have the same contrapositive.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 2 days ago









                  Eric DuminilEric Duminil

                  95649




                  95649







                  • 2





                    I think this answer is correct.

                    – Mark Andrews
                    2 days ago












                  • 2





                    I think this answer is correct.

                    – Mark Andrews
                    2 days ago







                  2




                  2





                  I think this answer is correct.

                  – Mark Andrews
                  2 days ago





                  I think this answer is correct.

                  – Mark Andrews
                  2 days ago











                  5














                  I see two interpretations of the sentence here. They mean logically different things. In both cases "only" is interpreted as "must be true and cannot be false".




                  I am in New York (only if I am in America).



                  If I am in New York, it can only be true that I am in America.



                  New York => America.




                  This is the interpretation everyone else is responding to. It is logically true.




                  I can be in (New York only) if I am in America.



                  If I am in America, then it can only be true that I am in New York.



                  America => New York.




                  This one is not logically true, you could be in Iowa.






                  share|improve this answer








                  New contributor




                  usul is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                  Check out our Code of Conduct.




















                  • My reading of the OP's first sentence could be paraphrased as "I am in New York, unless I am not in America". It's logically equivalent to your second version, I think, although reads like a statement about a particular person rather than a general statement about everyone.

                    – Brilliand
                    2 days ago











                  • @Brilliand, agreed, I first interpreted it as something like "When I go to America, I only go to New York."

                    – usul
                    yesterday















                  5














                  I see two interpretations of the sentence here. They mean logically different things. In both cases "only" is interpreted as "must be true and cannot be false".




                  I am in New York (only if I am in America).



                  If I am in New York, it can only be true that I am in America.



                  New York => America.




                  This is the interpretation everyone else is responding to. It is logically true.




                  I can be in (New York only) if I am in America.



                  If I am in America, then it can only be true that I am in New York.



                  America => New York.




                  This one is not logically true, you could be in Iowa.






                  share|improve this answer








                  New contributor




                  usul is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                  Check out our Code of Conduct.




















                  • My reading of the OP's first sentence could be paraphrased as "I am in New York, unless I am not in America". It's logically equivalent to your second version, I think, although reads like a statement about a particular person rather than a general statement about everyone.

                    – Brilliand
                    2 days ago











                  • @Brilliand, agreed, I first interpreted it as something like "When I go to America, I only go to New York."

                    – usul
                    yesterday













                  5












                  5








                  5







                  I see two interpretations of the sentence here. They mean logically different things. In both cases "only" is interpreted as "must be true and cannot be false".




                  I am in New York (only if I am in America).



                  If I am in New York, it can only be true that I am in America.



                  New York => America.




                  This is the interpretation everyone else is responding to. It is logically true.




                  I can be in (New York only) if I am in America.



                  If I am in America, then it can only be true that I am in New York.



                  America => New York.




                  This one is not logically true, you could be in Iowa.






                  share|improve this answer








                  New contributor




                  usul is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                  Check out our Code of Conduct.










                  I see two interpretations of the sentence here. They mean logically different things. In both cases "only" is interpreted as "must be true and cannot be false".




                  I am in New York (only if I am in America).



                  If I am in New York, it can only be true that I am in America.



                  New York => America.




                  This is the interpretation everyone else is responding to. It is logically true.




                  I can be in (New York only) if I am in America.



                  If I am in America, then it can only be true that I am in New York.



                  America => New York.




                  This one is not logically true, you could be in Iowa.







                  share|improve this answer








                  New contributor




                  usul is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                  Check out our Code of Conduct.









                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer






                  New contributor




                  usul is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                  Check out our Code of Conduct.









                  answered 2 days ago









                  usulusul

                  1512




                  1512




                  New contributor




                  usul is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                  Check out our Code of Conduct.





                  New contributor





                  usul is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                  Check out our Code of Conduct.






                  usul is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                  • My reading of the OP's first sentence could be paraphrased as "I am in New York, unless I am not in America". It's logically equivalent to your second version, I think, although reads like a statement about a particular person rather than a general statement about everyone.

                    – Brilliand
                    2 days ago











                  • @Brilliand, agreed, I first interpreted it as something like "When I go to America, I only go to New York."

                    – usul
                    yesterday

















                  • My reading of the OP's first sentence could be paraphrased as "I am in New York, unless I am not in America". It's logically equivalent to your second version, I think, although reads like a statement about a particular person rather than a general statement about everyone.

                    – Brilliand
                    2 days ago











                  • @Brilliand, agreed, I first interpreted it as something like "When I go to America, I only go to New York."

                    – usul
                    yesterday
















                  My reading of the OP's first sentence could be paraphrased as "I am in New York, unless I am not in America". It's logically equivalent to your second version, I think, although reads like a statement about a particular person rather than a general statement about everyone.

                  – Brilliand
                  2 days ago





                  My reading of the OP's first sentence could be paraphrased as "I am in New York, unless I am not in America". It's logically equivalent to your second version, I think, although reads like a statement about a particular person rather than a general statement about everyone.

                  – Brilliand
                  2 days ago













                  @Brilliand, agreed, I first interpreted it as something like "When I go to America, I only go to New York."

                  – usul
                  yesterday





                  @Brilliand, agreed, I first interpreted it as something like "When I go to America, I only go to New York."

                  – usul
                  yesterday











                  4














                  These claims have distinctly different connotations. From a pure formal-logic perspective, the "X only if Y" is equivalent to "Y or not X" which is the same as "X implies Y", which is the same as "if X then Y". However, natural language carries more information than its simple-minded reduction to predicate logic.



                  The second formulation "If I am in NY then I am in USA" sounds like a simple statement of a containment relationship: it implies that "I" am an unbound variable and informs the listener that NY is within the USA.



                  The first formulation connotes something about the speaker's mental state: he entertains the possibility (perhaps even likelihood) of being outside the USA in a place confusingly-similar to NY.






                  share|improve this answer








                  New contributor




                  Ian is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                    4














                    These claims have distinctly different connotations. From a pure formal-logic perspective, the "X only if Y" is equivalent to "Y or not X" which is the same as "X implies Y", which is the same as "if X then Y". However, natural language carries more information than its simple-minded reduction to predicate logic.



                    The second formulation "If I am in NY then I am in USA" sounds like a simple statement of a containment relationship: it implies that "I" am an unbound variable and informs the listener that NY is within the USA.



                    The first formulation connotes something about the speaker's mental state: he entertains the possibility (perhaps even likelihood) of being outside the USA in a place confusingly-similar to NY.






                    share|improve this answer








                    New contributor




                    Ian is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                    Check out our Code of Conduct.






















                      4












                      4








                      4







                      These claims have distinctly different connotations. From a pure formal-logic perspective, the "X only if Y" is equivalent to "Y or not X" which is the same as "X implies Y", which is the same as "if X then Y". However, natural language carries more information than its simple-minded reduction to predicate logic.



                      The second formulation "If I am in NY then I am in USA" sounds like a simple statement of a containment relationship: it implies that "I" am an unbound variable and informs the listener that NY is within the USA.



                      The first formulation connotes something about the speaker's mental state: he entertains the possibility (perhaps even likelihood) of being outside the USA in a place confusingly-similar to NY.






                      share|improve this answer








                      New contributor




                      Ian is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.










                      These claims have distinctly different connotations. From a pure formal-logic perspective, the "X only if Y" is equivalent to "Y or not X" which is the same as "X implies Y", which is the same as "if X then Y". However, natural language carries more information than its simple-minded reduction to predicate logic.



                      The second formulation "If I am in NY then I am in USA" sounds like a simple statement of a containment relationship: it implies that "I" am an unbound variable and informs the listener that NY is within the USA.



                      The first formulation connotes something about the speaker's mental state: he entertains the possibility (perhaps even likelihood) of being outside the USA in a place confusingly-similar to NY.







                      share|improve this answer








                      New contributor




                      Ian is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.









                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer






                      New contributor




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                      answered 2 days ago









                      IanIan

                      1412




                      1412




                      New contributor




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                      New contributor





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                          1














                          One way of analyzing the statements is to look at a truth table. Let's make the following definitions:



                          A := "I am in New York"

                          B := "I am in America".



                          X := "I am in New York only if I am in America"

                          Y := "If I am in New York, then I am in America"



                          If both A and B are true, then X is true. We can write that as X(TT) = T. We have X(TF) = F (If you are in New York but not in America, then the statement "I am in New York only if I am in America" must be false). X(FT) = T and X(FF) = T; X makes a statement about what has to be true when you're in New York, so if you're not in New York, then X isn't telling you anything so it can't be proven wrong.



                          If you analyze Y, you'll find that all the values are the same:

                          X(TT) = Y(TT) = T

                          X(TF) = Y(TF) = F

                          X(FT) = Y(FT) = T

                          X(FF) = Y(FF) = T



                          Since no matter the truth values of A and B, X has the same truth value as Y, X and Y are equivalent; if you have two statements such that it's not possible for one to be true and the other false, then the two statements are saying essentially the same thing.



                          One thing to keep in mind is that in Formal Logic, statements of the form "If S1 then S2" are considered true any time S1 is false; that is, "If S1 then S2" is interpreted as meaning "Whenever S1 is true, S2 is also true". Because of this, "If S1 then S2" is equivalent to "Either S1 is false, or S2 is true" (if S1 is false, then the statement is automatically true, because it doesn't say anything about the situation of S1 being true). And "S1 only if S2 " is also equivalent to "Either S1 is false, or S2 is true".






                          share|improve this answer



























                            1














                            One way of analyzing the statements is to look at a truth table. Let's make the following definitions:



                            A := "I am in New York"

                            B := "I am in America".



                            X := "I am in New York only if I am in America"

                            Y := "If I am in New York, then I am in America"



                            If both A and B are true, then X is true. We can write that as X(TT) = T. We have X(TF) = F (If you are in New York but not in America, then the statement "I am in New York only if I am in America" must be false). X(FT) = T and X(FF) = T; X makes a statement about what has to be true when you're in New York, so if you're not in New York, then X isn't telling you anything so it can't be proven wrong.



                            If you analyze Y, you'll find that all the values are the same:

                            X(TT) = Y(TT) = T

                            X(TF) = Y(TF) = F

                            X(FT) = Y(FT) = T

                            X(FF) = Y(FF) = T



                            Since no matter the truth values of A and B, X has the same truth value as Y, X and Y are equivalent; if you have two statements such that it's not possible for one to be true and the other false, then the two statements are saying essentially the same thing.



                            One thing to keep in mind is that in Formal Logic, statements of the form "If S1 then S2" are considered true any time S1 is false; that is, "If S1 then S2" is interpreted as meaning "Whenever S1 is true, S2 is also true". Because of this, "If S1 then S2" is equivalent to "Either S1 is false, or S2 is true" (if S1 is false, then the statement is automatically true, because it doesn't say anything about the situation of S1 being true). And "S1 only if S2 " is also equivalent to "Either S1 is false, or S2 is true".






                            share|improve this answer

























                              1












                              1








                              1







                              One way of analyzing the statements is to look at a truth table. Let's make the following definitions:



                              A := "I am in New York"

                              B := "I am in America".



                              X := "I am in New York only if I am in America"

                              Y := "If I am in New York, then I am in America"



                              If both A and B are true, then X is true. We can write that as X(TT) = T. We have X(TF) = F (If you are in New York but not in America, then the statement "I am in New York only if I am in America" must be false). X(FT) = T and X(FF) = T; X makes a statement about what has to be true when you're in New York, so if you're not in New York, then X isn't telling you anything so it can't be proven wrong.



                              If you analyze Y, you'll find that all the values are the same:

                              X(TT) = Y(TT) = T

                              X(TF) = Y(TF) = F

                              X(FT) = Y(FT) = T

                              X(FF) = Y(FF) = T



                              Since no matter the truth values of A and B, X has the same truth value as Y, X and Y are equivalent; if you have two statements such that it's not possible for one to be true and the other false, then the two statements are saying essentially the same thing.



                              One thing to keep in mind is that in Formal Logic, statements of the form "If S1 then S2" are considered true any time S1 is false; that is, "If S1 then S2" is interpreted as meaning "Whenever S1 is true, S2 is also true". Because of this, "If S1 then S2" is equivalent to "Either S1 is false, or S2 is true" (if S1 is false, then the statement is automatically true, because it doesn't say anything about the situation of S1 being true). And "S1 only if S2 " is also equivalent to "Either S1 is false, or S2 is true".






                              share|improve this answer













                              One way of analyzing the statements is to look at a truth table. Let's make the following definitions:



                              A := "I am in New York"

                              B := "I am in America".



                              X := "I am in New York only if I am in America"

                              Y := "If I am in New York, then I am in America"



                              If both A and B are true, then X is true. We can write that as X(TT) = T. We have X(TF) = F (If you are in New York but not in America, then the statement "I am in New York only if I am in America" must be false). X(FT) = T and X(FF) = T; X makes a statement about what has to be true when you're in New York, so if you're not in New York, then X isn't telling you anything so it can't be proven wrong.



                              If you analyze Y, you'll find that all the values are the same:

                              X(TT) = Y(TT) = T

                              X(TF) = Y(TF) = F

                              X(FT) = Y(FT) = T

                              X(FF) = Y(FF) = T



                              Since no matter the truth values of A and B, X has the same truth value as Y, X and Y are equivalent; if you have two statements such that it's not possible for one to be true and the other false, then the two statements are saying essentially the same thing.



                              One thing to keep in mind is that in Formal Logic, statements of the form "If S1 then S2" are considered true any time S1 is false; that is, "If S1 then S2" is interpreted as meaning "Whenever S1 is true, S2 is also true". Because of this, "If S1 then S2" is equivalent to "Either S1 is false, or S2 is true" (if S1 is false, then the statement is automatically true, because it doesn't say anything about the situation of S1 being true). And "S1 only if S2 " is also equivalent to "Either S1 is false, or S2 is true".







                              share|improve this answer












                              share|improve this answer



                              share|improve this answer










                              answered 2 days ago









                              AcccumulationAcccumulation

                              822110




                              822110





















                                  1














                                  To understand this more intuitively, I think it's helpful to use formatting help and rephrase this a little, while keeping the logic the same.



                                  Start with this:




                                  “I am in New York ONLY IF I am in America”




                                  That means there is no option to be in New York without being in America. The reason why there is no other way is that "only"--it is there to indicate there are no other ways to be in New York and some other country. That's the work it does in this sentence.



                                  Now consider the second sentence you gave:




                                  "If I am in New York, then I am in America"




                                  Let's rephrase that without changing the logic at all:




                                  "If I am in New York, I MUST BE in America"




                                  What both of these are saying is that being in New York necessarily entails being in America. You can't be in New York and be any other country. In other words, you have no other option. Which is just what I showed with the first sentence.






                                  share|improve this answer





























                                    1














                                    To understand this more intuitively, I think it's helpful to use formatting help and rephrase this a little, while keeping the logic the same.



                                    Start with this:




                                    “I am in New York ONLY IF I am in America”




                                    That means there is no option to be in New York without being in America. The reason why there is no other way is that "only"--it is there to indicate there are no other ways to be in New York and some other country. That's the work it does in this sentence.



                                    Now consider the second sentence you gave:




                                    "If I am in New York, then I am in America"




                                    Let's rephrase that without changing the logic at all:




                                    "If I am in New York, I MUST BE in America"




                                    What both of these are saying is that being in New York necessarily entails being in America. You can't be in New York and be any other country. In other words, you have no other option. Which is just what I showed with the first sentence.






                                    share|improve this answer



























                                      1












                                      1








                                      1







                                      To understand this more intuitively, I think it's helpful to use formatting help and rephrase this a little, while keeping the logic the same.



                                      Start with this:




                                      “I am in New York ONLY IF I am in America”




                                      That means there is no option to be in New York without being in America. The reason why there is no other way is that "only"--it is there to indicate there are no other ways to be in New York and some other country. That's the work it does in this sentence.



                                      Now consider the second sentence you gave:




                                      "If I am in New York, then I am in America"




                                      Let's rephrase that without changing the logic at all:




                                      "If I am in New York, I MUST BE in America"




                                      What both of these are saying is that being in New York necessarily entails being in America. You can't be in New York and be any other country. In other words, you have no other option. Which is just what I showed with the first sentence.






                                      share|improve this answer















                                      To understand this more intuitively, I think it's helpful to use formatting help and rephrase this a little, while keeping the logic the same.



                                      Start with this:




                                      “I am in New York ONLY IF I am in America”




                                      That means there is no option to be in New York without being in America. The reason why there is no other way is that "only"--it is there to indicate there are no other ways to be in New York and some other country. That's the work it does in this sentence.



                                      Now consider the second sentence you gave:




                                      "If I am in New York, then I am in America"




                                      Let's rephrase that without changing the logic at all:




                                      "If I am in New York, I MUST BE in America"




                                      What both of these are saying is that being in New York necessarily entails being in America. You can't be in New York and be any other country. In other words, you have no other option. Which is just what I showed with the first sentence.







                                      share|improve this answer














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                                      answered yesterday









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